Re: Microsoft Anti-Spyware? in Security http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r12319117 en Wed, 25 Nov 2009 05:39:07 EDT Wed, 25 Nov 2009 05:39:07 EDT Re: Microsoft Anti-Spyware? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12325255 anectine17 :
said by viken03 See Profile:

Has anyone heard if this is going to be a part of windows?
or will it stay a freeware tool?

It marked Grokster, Overnet and edonkey as "Adware bundlers". default was to ignore. I just left it as it was. Deleting them may stop the programs from working? Anyone tried it?
I don't know about Overnet, but Grokster and edonkey are definitely adware happy P2P programs!! Couldn't pay me enough to put that crap on my computer !! If you MUST use P2P, use WinMX...it's adware free.
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DW 4000, G4R/1250, 4.2.1.10. Host: Dell Dimension, XP Pro SP2, IE 6. Client: Dell Inspiron, XP Home SP2, IE 6. Both w/ KAV 5.0.227, KAH 1.7, LockSpam Pro 3.0, AdShield 3.0.8.0, Ad-Aware SE Plus and Giant Anti-Spyware 1.0. Connected via Linksys WAP 11]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12325255 Sat, 08 Jan 2005 01:21:01 EDT Re: Microsoft Anti-Spyware? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12324949 viken03 : Has anyone heard if this is going to be a part of windows?
or will it stay a freeware tool?

It marked Grokster, Overnet and edonkey as "Adware bundlers". default was to ignore. I just left it as it was. Deleting them may stop the programs from working? Anyone tried it?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12324949 Sat, 08 Jan 2005 00:30:04 EDT Re: Microsoft Anti-Spyware? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12324725 anectine17 : I am a paid subsriber / user of Giant AntiSpyware, and am quite pleased with it. I have noticed no change or reduction in functionality or efficiency since MS took over. As for FP's, I have not had a problem with that either. SearchSquire is a program that installed itself on my PC without my permission, which makes it malware in my mind whether it is considered dangerous or not. I also feel that tracking cookies are malware, since their purpose is to report my web activities without my knowledge. I plan to continue to use Giant / MS AntiSpyware, and will be happy to pay MS an annual license fee just as I paid Giant. As has been mentioned, people are WAY too quick to bash MS when things aren't perfect. Take MS out of the picture, and we probably wouldn't be communicating in this form. Bill brought us home computing and the internet (it wasn't Al Gore), we need to remember that instead of bashing him for doing what every one of us would do....making a mint off of a great idea!! Too bad it's not perfect. Just my 2 cents.
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DW 4000, G4R/1250, 4.2.1.10. Host: Dell Dimension, XP Pro SP2, IE 6. Client: Dell Inspiron, XP Home SP2, IE 6. Both w/ KAV 5.0.227, KAH 1.7, LockSpam Pro 3.0, AdShield 3.0.8.0, Ad-Aware SE Plus and Giant Anti-Spyware 1.0. Connected via Linksys WAP 11]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12324725 Fri, 07 Jan 2005 23:58:18 EDT Re: Microsoft Anti-Spyware? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12324282 Mele20 : Stay away from this software unless you want the serious risk of tons of problems. I installed it last night and it immediately crashed my computer. I ran it one time and all it found was one false positive that it hyped as being a major problem. I then looked at all the options, etc. more closely and was appalled. It hooks very deep into the system and that just begs for problems. After uninstalling it, I went to sleep.

First thing today on the computer I am confronted with a strange error box that says I am about to install software for my modem which is not digitally signed by MS. Huh? I click that off and immediately get another error stating that my new hardware needs to be installed. I have no new hardware. I click out that and get the first error message again.

To make a long story short, I was on the phone troubleshooting with Dell for four hours. Dell and I both believe that the Conexant PCI data/fax/modem that is now suddenly bad is probably due to that MS software. I don't use the dial up modem a lot but it was working fine a few days ago when I did use it. The errors began immediately upon uninstalling the MS application.

The computer would not boot with the modem installed in any slot. After an exhausting four hours, Dell is sending a new modem and will be flying a tech from Honolulu to install it.

I, of course, am kicking myself for being so stupid as to try some buggy MS beta product that had given me a lot of problems when it was Giant.
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The first and foremost function of our jurors is to protect private citizens from a tyrannical and intrusive government...Jurors are the last line of defense for liberty. Thomas Jefferson 1789]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12324282 Fri, 07 Jan 2005 22:56:50 EDT Re: Microsoft Anti-Spyware? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12324058 u475700 : I abandoned Giant because it routinely reported false positives and hyped low risks such as tracking cookies. Although it might not be the best available, it's certain better than what Microsoft had before.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12324058 Fri, 07 Jan 2005 22:29:21 EDT Re: Microsoft Anti-Spyware? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12323907 OZO :
said by John2g See Profile:

It's like selling people a toaster that could catch fire at any time, but then offering a free fire extinguisher to put out those fires as required.
Going just a bit further - after beta testing - fire extinguisher offered will require a regular charge (not free of charge of cause ;)).
In this case - tell me - what next version of the toaster will do about the potential fire if good part of income comes from fire extinguisher?

Unfortunately, it looks rediculous...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12323907 Fri, 07 Jan 2005 22:14:36 EDT Re: Microsoft Anti-Spyware? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12323703 Jim Gurd : I got at least 2 false positives. Both Ad Aware and Spybot come up clean.

On the screenshot above the item marked GonnaSearch toolbar is actually a program downloaded from Microsoft called Toolbar Wallpaper. I checked the executible and it is digitally signed by Microsoft so it's legit.

The SearchSquire entry is also a FP. I have it in my restricted sites zone (thanks Eric Howes for IE Spyad!!).
Click for full size
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12323703 Fri, 07 Jan 2005 21:48:23 EDT Re: Microsoft Anti-Spyware? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12323566 mers2 : My one objection to the MS's handling of the Giant purchase is that Giant worked on Win9x and WinNT boxes. Microsoft buys it and immediately makes it so that it no longer runs on Win9x boxes. If they were geuinuinely concerned about security and malware they would have left the program funtional for all of the OSs. I particularly feel sorry for those who purchased Giant prior to MS buying it.
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"Think for yourself and let others enjoy the privilege of doing so too." - Voltaire ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12323566 Fri, 07 Jan 2005 21:32:26 EDT Re: Microsoft Anti-Spyware? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12321606 richrf : I am a licensed user of Giant AS, not the beta, and I can tell you that I paid the money and I am not using the product at all anymore. It has been so neutered, to render it useless and untrustworthy.

I was not a big fan of SpySweeper, because of its FPs, but I will re-exam the situation. Giant, at one time, was catching bonafide spys, but no more.

This has nothing to do with MS being a big company. This has to do with MS creating problematic software and now buying out a company that was detecting these problems, and neutering (silencing) the product. In my opinion, MS's "anti-spyware" has become worthless - especially if a user has a decent AV and AT. The question is whether an AV and AT combined with Ad-aware is enough or whether an additional product like SpySweeper is needed. I just don't know.

Rich]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12321606 Fri, 07 Jan 2005 17:51:02 EDT Re: Microsoft Anti-Spyware? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12320945 Allnew :
said by John2g See Profile:

said by keith2468 See Profile:

Why would he not buy Giant from MS?

Because MS a big company?

It makes no sense.

Some people need little, or no, excuse to "bash" Microsoft.
Couldn't agree more.
Even if MS made a cure for cancer or AIDS some people would still criticize them.
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The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity. Harlan Ellison (1934 - )]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12320945 Fri, 07 Jan 2005 16:36:15 EDT Re: Microsoft Anti-Spyware? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12320682 John2g :
said by keith2468 See Profile:

Why would he not buy Giant from MS?

Because MS a big company?

It makes no sense.

Some people need little, or no, excuse to "bash" Microsoft.
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Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12320682 Fri, 07 Jan 2005 16:05:14 EDT Re: Microsoft Anti-Spyware? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12320547 keith2468 : He bought his OS from MS.

He bought his CPU from Intel.

He bought Giant AS from Giant.

Why would he not buy Giant from MS?

Because MS a big company?

It makes no sense.

And neither does complaining about beta software having false positives and missed alarms when there was no complaint about similar problems in the product when Giant had it in general release.

"Beta test" is a type of test.

1. When you enter a beta test you are agreeing that you are to test it and promptly report any problems you find to the beta corrdinator.

2. You should never install beta software on a system you depend upon for work, school or anything else critical to you.

Beta software from any company should only be installed on non-critical test and hobbiest systems.

3. The beta test phase shouldn't go on forever. The software should eventually get good enough that the software can go into general release.

Beta tests ending is a good thing, not a bad thing.

4. As Eric Howes noted, no anti-adware is 100% effective. That Giant AS isn't suddenly 100% effective should surprise no one. If it was easy to make a 100% effective AS and AAW product, the ad-aware and spybot s&d folks would have done so by now.

Unfortunately we need to continue to run multiple anti-adware and anti-spyware packages.
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(Virus&Hijacking FAQ + Submit suspected malware + Backups FAQ + Security FAQ TOC)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12320547 Fri, 07 Jan 2005 15:52:15 EDT Re: Microsoft Anti-Spyware? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12320337 lunte : I was happy that day I found Giant spyware,and bought the program.
But then the big Giant(micro$oft)came alonge,and bought this very good spyware cleaner.
Why can this big money company,not fix the big hole in this crappy spyware win holes?
maby this is a cheap solution for them,just to buy a antivirus,and a spyware?

I will never pay for this Giant/M$ program,I think I will go back to spysweeper.And support them.
Lets us all do this,so they can fix this big black hole in the windows system??

lunte. :huh: ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12320337 Fri, 07 Jan 2005 15:33:51 EDT Re: Microsoft Anti-Spyware? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12320099 dadkins : Thanks DP!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12320099 Fri, 07 Jan 2005 15:08:53 EDT Re: Microsoft Anti-Spyware? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12319719 dp :
said by dadkins See Profile:

Just wondering if MS Antispyware is detecting the Passport cookie(MSN/Hotmail/???), the original Giant still does...
No, they have cookie scanning disabled in the beta.
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Write your questions down on the back of a $20 dollar bill and send them to me]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12319719 Fri, 07 Jan 2005 14:24:05 EDT Re: Microsoft Anti-Spyware? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12319274 boblandy :
said by John2g See Profile:

It's like selling people a toaster that could catch fire at any time, but then offering a free fire extinguisher to put out those fires as required.
to carry the metaphor one crucial step further, we all know what gets stuffed into a toaster
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look out kid they keep it all hid]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12319274 Fri, 07 Jan 2005 13:29:19 EDT Re: Microsoft Anti-Spyware? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12319117 SUMware : The 'fire extinguisher' may work fine (for those fire types it's rated for), but why keep using the 'toaster'?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12319117 Fri, 07 Jan 2005 13:09:47 EDT Re: Microsoft Anti-Spyware? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12318295 Keizer : I installed it, just to give it a whirl. It does look and work great. However, I agree with others, that I would never pay to have this thing updated by MS. There are too many other free solutions!

Keizer ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12318295 Fri, 07 Jan 2005 11:33:11 EDT Re: Microsoft Anti-Spyware? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12317803 antiserious :
... I've had some of these same thoughts since M$ acquired Giant ... seems to me they've admitted that they can't - or won't - fix the security holes in their systems and browser, so users need a band-aid to help defend themselves (haven't we known that for a long time?) ... but wtf, might as well make some more money on the process ... on one hand, ya gotta love the self-sustaining system idea, but on the other hand, how can you possibly trust the source of the problem to be the solution to the problem? ...

... P T Barnum would love these guys ...

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... "everybody's somebody to somebody, and nobody to everybody else" ... y.t. ...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12317803 Fri, 07 Jan 2005 10:35:03 EDT Re: Microsoft Anti-Spyware? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12317605 dadkins : Just wondering if MS Antispyware is detecting the Passport cookie(MSN/Hotmail/???), the original Giant still does...
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No Firefox here, move along!
Click for full size
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12317605 Fri, 07 Jan 2005 10:04:10 EDT Re: Microsoft Anti-Spyware? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12317325 richrf : Great. Now MS has given itself monetary incentive to _not fix_ the problems it has caused. What's more, which company is going to be guarding against MS's own intrusions. I have Giant, and I don't trust its database anymore. I have pretty much stopped running it, instead relying on other products to catch spyware. About 1 month ago, I began noticing that Giant was becoming superfluous (began just giving me false positives), and more recently it has become totally useless.

My primary security software right now is ZoneAlarm (I am little alarmed about the path that this company is taking), KAV 4.5 (excellent), ProcessGuard 3.0 (airtight defense, the kind that MS should provide by closing up their own security holes in their operating system), and Ad-aware. This setup seems to be really working well, and all of my other security programs don't seem to be catching anything after I set this up.

Not only am I not going to buy MS's product, I have basically put it to rest because it does more harm then good right now - e.g. false positives.

Rich]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12317325 Fri, 07 Jan 2005 09:21:05 EDT Re: Microsoft Anti-Spyware? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12317114 markjclark : So far I like it runs good, found things nothing else found.
I hope to be able to use it at work on user's computer's but having to pay is not an option. I just won't use it if that the case.
I donate to the others that I don't have to pay.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12317114 Fri, 07 Jan 2005 08:47:12 EDT Re: Microsoft Anti-Spyware? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12316943 Tyreman : Well it works prety good.
You gotta admit selling the problem and the solution though maybe unintentional-+? has got to be a marketing gurus dream come true!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12316943 Fri, 07 Jan 2005 08:12:10 EDT Re: Microsoft Anti-Spyware? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12316883 John2g :
said by anthrorules See Profile:

»Download Microsoft Windows AntiSpyware (Beta) Now!
You seem to have missed the point of my post.
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Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12316883 Fri, 07 Jan 2005 07:55:27 EDT Re: Microsoft Anti-Spyware? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12316866 anthrorules : »Download Microsoft Windows AntiSpyware (Beta) Now!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12316866 Fri, 07 Jan 2005 07:49:38 EDT Re: Microsoft Anti-Spyware? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12316746 MacThrasher : Great article. I agree its like selling a toaster with a fire extinguisher. I am a self-employed computer consultant. More than half of my current calls end up being related to spyware. And there are some really bad ones out there now. They should be considered viruses the way they bog down these machines. Between the holes in IE and the MS operating systems right out of the box, and the general clueless-ness of most casual computer users, spyware has gotten completely out of control.

I am quite sure MS will start charging after the beta expires, which is somewhat mind boggling. If the numerous holes that allow these exploits to be run were shored up, the issue of spyware will be less of an issue. It feels to me like MS is finding another revenue stream rather than correcting the problems. :(
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The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese. ;) ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12316746 Fri, 07 Jan 2005 07:01:36 EDT Re: Microsoft Anti-Spyware? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12316693 Mele20 : Microsoft says right in the EULA that this beta self destructs in 6 months and that to use the beta one has to agree that Microsoft can stop the beta at any time in order to offer this software as stand alone PAID software. It appears Microsoft will be charging for this software within a few months. Of course, they have to get rid of all the false positives first and get the software to not crash your computer. Both happened to me.

Excellent, thought provoking article. Thanks!
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The first and foremost function of our jurors is to protect private citizens from a tyrannical and intrusive government...Jurors are the last line of defense for liberty. Thomas Jefferson 1789]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12316693 Fri, 07 Jan 2005 06:37:50 EDT Microsoft Anti-Spyware? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12316534 John2g : »www.theregister.co.uk/2005/01/07···spyware/

By Kelly Martin, SecurityFocus
Published Friday 7th January 2005 09:35 GMT

Microsoft has jumped into the anti-spyware market, but is this a new approach to thwarting bugs, or is it gearing up to profit from a dubious industry it helped create?

The ink is barely dry from Microsoft's acquisition of the GIANT Company Software, and already they are offering the first public beta release of a new application called Microsoft Anti-Spyware. In other words, Microsoft is getting into the anti-spyware market in a big way. What does this mean for customers?

Part of me wants to applaud Microsoft and say that this is a very good thing for their customers, albeit a move that is long overdue. The other part of me says that this is a band-aid approach and a funny way for them to admit defeat - because it's holes in Microsoft's operating system that built the entire spyware industry to begin with. What does this mean for the security industry, and where are we headed with spyware? I'll try to explore both sides of the fence.

Good for customers
It's nice to see Microsoft attack the spyware issue head-on. GIANT's anti-spyware offering has received some favorable reviews, and Microsoft's Anti-Spyware first public beta still has GIANT's name written all over it. Installing the software reveals a clean interface with easy-to-use controls and a strangely familiar set of buttons. It looks good.

The license agreement for Microsoft Anti-Spyware identifies spyware using a new Microsoft term, Potentially Unwanted Software (PUS). I love it, it's so Microsoft. In effect, Microsoft will identify all the PUS inside your Windows computer, and help you squeeze it out. Great.

Anti-spyware applications require regular updates. To that end, MS Anti-Spyware's default settings look for updates on a daily basis. And for now, it appears that Microsoft will offer these updates for free -- at least for the foreseeable future. Once the product is out of the beta stage, though, things could certainly change.

What if they start charging a subscription fee for the updates? It only makes sense. This is a lucrative market and a potential recurring revenue stream worth billions of dollars, which might be too sweet to pass up. The anti-virus companies in comparison are already making billions of dollars by charging for subscriptions for their own weekly updates. Why shouldn't Microsoft jump on the bandwagon? A subscription model seems to be the holy grail of software licensing, as we've seen from so many products already.

Here's my prediction on how Microsoft will tackle the spyware market, moving forward. MS Anti-Spyware looks like an excellent product. By offering it for free now and soon bundling it with every new computer, similar to Internet Explorer, two years from now Microsoft Anti-Spyware could easily own the lion's share of the market, at which point they can choose to start charging for those weekly updates you have come to rely on. It will also help inch them towards licensing their OS and its updates on a pure subscription basis, something that they've already done to a large extent with their Enterprise license agreements. But from now until then, at least your computer will be protected, and safe. And in the interim, their approach to security patches with Internet Explorer and the rest of the operating system will remain the same.

Ridiculous or absurd?
Is Microsoft's entrance into the anti-spyware industry good for customers? Probably. But the cynic in me also looks at this as a rather ridiculous response to the problem - or a set of problems that they are simply unable to fix: massive holes in their browser and fundamental flaws in their operating system that they cannot stay on top of. Oh, some of us have talked about this many times before, but little has changed. They might as well start building more standalone applications on top of all the holes, if that's the only way to fix them.

Can you really prevent the exploitation of holes in a browser and operating system using a standalone application? Maybe. The people over at PivX seem to think so. The anti-virus companies are making billions in subscription fees, and they're slowly starting to address spyware as well. Today anti-spyware companies all offer real-time, proactive detection, just like MS Anti-Spyware. This is generally effective. But isn't this simply the wrong approach to the problem?

It's like selling people a toaster that could catch fire at any time, but then offering a free fire extinguisher to put out those fires as required. Is this the best they can do?

Perhaps the new MS Anti-Spyware application is just a stop-gap solution until Longhorn comes out in a few years. But I'm not holding my breath. Instead, let's all follow Microsoft's lead: admit defeat now, and then figure out how to profit from the epidemic you helped create.

I think spyware is going to be with us for a very, very long time.
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Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12316534 Fri, 07 Jan 2005 05:30:57 EDT