Re: [News] Insight Using Sandvine To Control P2P T in Inside Insight http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r12140497 en Sat, 28 Nov 2009 23:47:11 EDT Sat, 28 Nov 2009 23:47:11 EDT Re: Die p2p Die !! (Just a rant) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12391972 BeesTea : It's kind of like the speed limit. As a race car driver, I can handle my car just fine at 130mph. The majority of the people on the road are not race car drivers.

I've been using Linux as my desktop since 1996 and know exactly what you mean, however we are not the norm.

There are alternatives for people who want to have the final say on their connections. Call your telco and ask about a leased line.

-BeesT
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echo 16i[q]sa[ln0=aln100%Pln100/snlbx]sbA0D4D465452snlb xq |dc]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12391972 Sat, 15 Jan 2005 13:19:29 EDT Re: Die p2p Die !! (Just a rant) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12391946 Beetle_B : "I cant tell you how many times people called support complaining of slow speeds and they had p2p running in the backround with people leaching and they didnt even know it!"

So the solution is just to kill all of it?

I repeat, if the user's system is compromised by p2p apps, and p2p usage, then it is their problem. If Insight wants to discourage p2p use because the user's Internet will slow down, they should just put a statement to that effect on their Web site, or TOS.

"Assholes know that a lot of newbs use p2p because they are perplexed by irc, ftp etc so they put infected files up with file names of new music, movies etc to bait you in and own you."

Again, that's the user's fault for not securing the system in the first place. I can't see how viruses being sent back and forth affect Insight.

Of course, as was pointed out in another post, it is Insight's network, and they can do with it as they please. However, that doesn't mean that everything they do equates to good service.

If they're going to restrict p2p, they should say so up front.

Again, as a Linux user, most of the issues regarding system security are irrelevant to me. Perhaps what Insight is doing is for the best interest of their Windows users, but they are providing bad service for Linux users. It's a case of them "dummying" things down so that relatively more advanced users will suffer.

A search on IRC Spy does not give me any version of Knoppix, BTW.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12391946 Sat, 15 Jan 2005 13:15:15 EDT Re: Die p2p Die !! (Just a rant) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12390841 turdhat : Interesting point you have. Lets see, are you a typical user or a network admin ? If you had any idea what is going on at the packet level on large networks such as insights (I used to work there in their TSG btw) you would agree. P2P is a huge issue internet wide. Understand that above 50% of all internet traffic was at one time (may still be) p2p traffic. I have seem more systems comprimised from p2p files sharing than from email, ftp and web combined 10x over. Simple p2p searches with Kazaa etc use tons of bandwidth just to display resutls. I have tested them in a lab setting and it is ridiculous. I cant tell you how many times people called support complaining of slow speeds and they had p2p running in the backround with people leaching and they didnt even know it ! Funny at the time. Assholes know that a lot of newbs use p2p because they are perplexed by irc, ftp etc so they put infected files up with file names of new music, movies etc to bait you in and own you. Its a fact. I have ethereal logs from campus networks that would make any admin cringe. It would be greek to most of you. Trust me P2P is your enemy and you dont even know it yet. Irc is the way to go. You want files ? Download irc and go to www.packetnews.com or www.ircspy.com and search for what you want. Been using ot for my file needs since before the internet had a browser or pictures. It was all test. Anyone remember the Slip/Unix accounts! Heh ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12390841 Sat, 15 Jan 2005 10:28:44 EDT Re: Die p2p Die !! (Just a rant) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12389403 Beetle_B : Educate us then, please.

Viruses may be spread via p2p, but p2p is by no means special in this regard. They are also spread by the Web, and by email. The virus loaded items that people download via p2p (usually executables that are advertized as serial key generators) are quite easily available on the Web, as well. Point is that if you restrict someone from trying to get such files via p2p, they'll get them anyway off the Web - and still get infected.

Other than the type of virus that cause people to send mass mails, I can't see how it is an ISP's concern whether its users get infected. If the idea is just to protect the users, then it is being done at the expense of others (i.e. those who use p2p). And people like me who use Linux, for which there are few viruses.

Even if there are viruses that when installed on many users' computers can adversely affect the network, the protocol should be that those particular users have their accounts temporarily suspended - give them enough time to clean their systems. It's the user's job to keep a secure system - not the ISP's.

My main objection is that basing their decision on viruses is quite arbitrary. p2p is just a means to share bits, as is the Web, as is email. All are good candidates for infecting users. It's like saying to the user: "You can only access the following Web pages, because we've determined them to be virus free..." ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12389403 Sat, 15 Jan 2005 02:07:56 EDT Re: Die p2p Die !! (Just a rant) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12382935 BeesTea :
said by Beetle_B See Profile:

Yet another person who doesn't know anything about viruses as far as p2p goes.

Hope he/she never manages a network, large or small, near me.
Educate us then, please.

-BeesT
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echo 16i[q]sa[ln0=aln100%Pln100/snlbx]sbA0D4D465452snlb xq |dc]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12382935 Fri, 14 Jan 2005 12:32:09 EDT Re: Die p2p Die !! (Just a rant) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12382903 Beetle_B : "I have managed large networks before and p2p traffic, the resulting virus infections from their use due to ignorant end users downloading trojans and viruses disuised as music, etc cause more problems than they are worth by far."

Yet another person who doesn't know anything about viruses as far as p2p goes.

Hope he/she never manages a network, large or small, near me.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12382903 Fri, 14 Jan 2005 12:28:48 EDT Die p2p Die !! (Just a rant) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12381788 anon : Man, I hope that they shut down all p2p traffic. I have managed large networks before and p2p traffic, the resulting virus infections from their use due to ignorant end users downloading trojans and viruses disuised as music, etc cause more problems than they are worth by far. Insight is doing something to control p2p traffic because if they were not we would all be complaining of slow speed. They do it because if they didnt the snowball effect caused by all the p2p users would grind their network to a halt or close to it..

I have seen an oc12 node over run by unrestrained p2p traffic. Cisco PDLM's (look it up) can be installed and run on the routers to shape p2p traffic if the cpu in the router is big enough to deal with it and whatever normal traffic occurs. They dont need sandvine to do this. I could set it up on all their ubr's system wide in a days time and would be happy to do so for free. If they killed p2p all togther we could all have 10 megs down from the drop in traffic. P2P is out of control. and has been for sometime now. Die p2p die !]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12381788 Fri, 14 Jan 2005 10:09:53 EDT Re: [News] Insight Using Sandvine To Control P2P T http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12337732 dinzy : Someone in the thread on blocked sites said in IN he can't use BT because he si on the central node and that is where filtering is taking place. I live in Urbana and still have no real issues with any torrents. So maybe the central node is the one you guys are on and that is why there are problems. Give a call and complain.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12337732 Sun, 09 Jan 2005 18:12:09 EDT Re: [News] Insight Using Sandvine To Control P2P T http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12336356 anon : I came back to my apartment after going home for christmas break and now i can't use bittorrent without being under yellow (firewalled). My settings for BT never changed, but i checked my router and double checked it just to be safe... all my settings are correct for bit torrent, but i can't get out from the firewall. i have no choice except to assume it's on insight's end. very poor. I use it for legitimate, legal live music downloads. The entire community shares video and audio reordings this way, and there's nothing illegal about it in the least bit.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12336356 Sun, 09 Jan 2005 15:10:15 EDT Re: [News] Insight Using Sandvine To Control P2P T http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12284300 Beetle_B : What's to prevent the DSL provider from installing Sandvine, or the equivalent thereof?

The funny thing is: Some torrents work just fine for me. I'm downloading Knoppix, and it's coming at 450 KB/s. However, the color indicator in Azureus stays yellow, indicating a problem. My port is open in the firewall, so that's not it.

Now when I try a torrent a friend sent me, I get 40 KB/s max. He gets over 200 KB/s. He lives at the edge of town, but also uses InsightBB. I happen to live close to campus (Urbana).

Then take the Donkey network. All of a sudden, I'm getting low ID's, which I never got before. Again, the ports are open in the firewall.

As per another post, I have rebooted the router, and reregistered it with Insight (had to, as for a while I had something else registered with them). It didn't change the problem at all.

Whatever the issue is, it's not on my side.

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12284300 Mon, 03 Jan 2005 20:31:31 EDT Re: [News] Insight Using Sandvine To Control P2P T http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12262960 dinzy : If it happens again I am switching to DSL. I don't care if I have to waste cash on a phone line just to have it. I don't like being kept in the dark about these things]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12262960 Fri, 31 Dec 2004 22:12:15 EDT Re: [News] Insight Using Sandvine To Control P2P T http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12261491 jaymz668 : Yes, because P2P is only for porn. You moron.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12261491 Fri, 31 Dec 2004 18:38:19 EDT Re: [News] Insight Using Sandvine To Control P2P T http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12246190 fbelcher : You must be some kind of Jerk]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12246190 Wed, 29 Dec 2004 22:47:00 EDT Re: [News] Insight Using Sandvine To Control P2P T http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12244022 anon : Waaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh! I can't download my pr0n! I can't get illegal software through p2p!!! Wahhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!

Shup up.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12244022 Wed, 29 Dec 2004 18:38:17 EDT Re: [News] Insight Using Sandvine To Control P2P T http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12206509 Meeble :
said by drewrw See Profile:

You dont understand. Why should we support a p2p program? Please tell me.... You use those programs at your own risk.
from my numerous call to insight you would be better off instead of spending time postin here to bone up on some networking courses an maybe take some certification training. I've had to explain basic networking principles to tier 2 support on several instances when I was having problems and being told the problems were my machine. ::cough:: major article posted on every tech news site days later ::cough::

nbr 2 -- noone is asking you to troubleshoot or support anything software side. There is a difference between packet shaping, port scanning/blocking and supporting software. Again please refer to my first point.

but seriously Blizzard is using p2p ports to distribute patches and downloads for '2004's game of the year'* ... I've been gettin Linux distro's and other legal iso's off torrents for almost 2 years now.

It boils down to people making decisions abou technology they don't understand and taking the word of people trying to sell them things. Until the people making these decisions (including up to the lvl of Congress 'people') this will be an issue with groups who hav large financial backings trying to influence law and policy of both corporations and the Government.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12206509 Fri, 24 Dec 2004 16:46:02 EDT Re: [News] Insight Using Sandvine To Control P2P T http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12186802 shwooz : Drew.. you are in Kentucky. I am in Urbana Illinois. I am sure things work a little differently here. Apparently you do not believe me. "They" refers to Insight (read the first post of this thread), then call Lionel at Insight (217-384-2500) and ask him if they implemented Sandvine this fall. Do you understand that?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12186802 Wed, 22 Dec 2004 10:24:56 EDT Re: [News] Insight Using Sandvine To Control P2P T http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12186437 drewrw : .]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12186437 Wed, 22 Dec 2004 09:23:31 EDT Re: [News] Insight Using Sandvine To Control P2P T http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12186360 qos1 :
said by drewrw See Profile:

You dont understand. Why should we support a p2p program? Please tell me.... You use those programs at your own risk.
I dont think anyone here is asking insight to provide support for a p2p program but we are asking that you maintain a unfiltered, non blocked, non throttled pipe...Is that too much to ask??...drewrw I dont think you get the issue...what is your position at insight?? If you arent a engineer of some kind then you might not understand what we are refering to.

BTW: My P2P issues were resolved and disappeared as fast as they came and the ability to do some "network control" and or Sandvine was somewhat confirmed by an Insight NOC]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12186360 Wed, 22 Dec 2004 09:10:14 EDT Re: [News] Insight Using Sandvine To Control P2P T http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12186088 drewrw : .]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12186088 Wed, 22 Dec 2004 08:07:34 EDT Re: [News] Insight Using Sandvine To Control P2P T http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12186046 shwooz : I'm sorry but they already told me that they were in the Champaign-Urbana area.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12186046 Wed, 22 Dec 2004 07:53:43 EDT Re: [News] Insight Using Sandvine To Control P2P T http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12185952 drewrw : .]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12185952 Wed, 22 Dec 2004 07:28:20 EDT Re: [News] Insight Using Sandvine To Control P2P T http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12185159 IGGY : No one said that should offer support for anything. But you shouldn't be blocking any program that can have a legitimate usage. BitTorrent in fact has many legit uses for end users. Many game companies are using the technology in different ways. Some Linux distros are now being released this way. Those are just 2 examples.

It's interesting how you've totally decided not to address the topic of the thread. You've stated an opinion - which I have no problem with you doing. But I don't see you confirming or denying the use of a filtering application. Which was the main topic here.

I should point out I missed the "o" in Xbox above - lol.
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Test Your Security Cable Diagnostics Iggyz Blog ZoneAlarm Help]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12185159 Wed, 22 Dec 2004 01:50:16 EDT Re: [News] Insight Using Sandvine To Control P2P T http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12182984 drewrw : Our pets or priority escalation tickets are meant for customers who have had multiple connections issues. For example, multiple trouble calls which include no synchs, intermittent connections, failed install, and the list goes on. We are told by managment not to escalate these tickets because your p2p is slower than you want it. lol
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Insight BB high speed internet technician.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12182984 Tue, 21 Dec 2004 21:11:36 EDT Re: [News] Insight Using Sandvine To Control P2P T http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12182944 drewrw : You dont understand. Why should we support a p2p program? Please tell me.... You use those programs at your own risk.
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Insight BB high speed internet technician.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12182944 Tue, 21 Dec 2004 21:07:09 EDT Re: [News] Insight Using Sandvine To Control P2P T http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12178179 Meeble : given the scop of the place where I work I have seen this come to fruition hundreds of times in the past.

I prsonally wouldn't doubt that somewhere on insight or on at&t there is an implementation of sandvine, whether a rogue middle mgr gave the order or it was a trial or a li ... whaqtever I would bet there is some implementation of it. Just look at the problems various ISP cutomer have been having with port problems lately..... p2p, now cox an world o warcraft users, sandvines p2p is supposed to route throuh the most cost effective. How often do you think this port rangin that gets fwd goes through a p*ss poor system like lvl 3 in washinton is notorious for, an gets dropped etc. Maybe th ability to access things aren't the ISP's fault directly because they buy into the technology based on what they are told. From all reports of what we've seen th current implmentation of Sandvines QoS and P2p setup was somewhat lacking but a good first step for what it is trying to accomplish. The addtl overhead to run it a couple places have deemed it not worth it, or used the dreaded 'value added' catch phrase lol.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12178179 Tue, 21 Dec 2004 12:57:40 EDT Re: [News] Insight Using Sandvine To Control P2P Traffic http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12140806 IGGY : Well this again seems to be a communication issue within Insight. Because other upper management seems to be under the impression that they are in fact NOT using this technology. It seems to be that they definitely have not put this in place in all regions. As I said in another thread today. I don't feel I'm seeing anything related to filtering. If they are filtering. This very well might explain why users are seeing different types of issues in other areas. This might be related to why some users are having issues related to high pings and gaming. Personally I'm still thinking that is more related to Xbx specifically or other factors. But you never know.

Just add a post in my blog on this. Linked previous threads and articles. Also added links related to the gaming issues and speeds that users have been reporting.
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Test Your Security

Cable Diagnostics
Iggyz Blog ZoneAlarm Help]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12140806 Thu, 16 Dec 2004 23:26:11 EDT Re: [News] Insight Using Sandvine To Control P2P T http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12140497 AlkalineArmy : Hmm, I use P2P quite often and I've never seen any sort of issue that only affected P2P. I use Bittorrent and Soulseek most often, but I also sometimes use Ares and even Kazaa on rare occasions. If I notice any problems, I'll be sure to post here and complain to the office like crazy. ;-)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12140497 Thu, 16 Dec 2004 22:51:07 EDT Re: [News] Insight Using Sandvine To Control P2P T http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12138044 qos1 : I think I may be the next victim of this POS...WinMX ...Bittorrent limited to 5K (Ive tested different BT ports/trackers/torrents)...called insight "wreck" support and they wouldnt escalate or even start a ticket for me on this issue but the NOC somewhat confirmed they have these "capabilities" and that they would use it to "protect" (gimme a F@cking break) the network...Im going to keep tshooting this and hopefully this isnt an insight problem but this is leaving a very bad taste in my mouth...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12138044 Thu, 16 Dec 2004 18:21:44 EDT [News] Insight Using Sandvine To Control P2P Traffic http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12134576 shwooz : I was just advised by a member of Insight management that they are indeed using Sandvine »www.sandvine.com/solutions/p2p_p···ngmt.asp to shape and control P2P traffic.
It was implemented during the speed upgrade several months back. Because of the high volume of complaints, they have bypassed it for now. According to the technician, Sandvine wasn't meant to halt P2P traffic, rather route the traffic down the least-cost network path. This fall when asked if they were using Sandvine, they denied it. They claimed they had absolutely NO idea what was going on. So for the 2 months that no one was able to connect to P2P, Sandvine was to blame. I would think it would be obvious to them what the problem was considering after the implementation of Sandvine is when the complaints started rolling in.
On 12/13 P2P traffic was once again halted and I was probably the first person to complain, as I was sitting directly in front of the computer as it happened.

I was advised by a senior Insight management technician that things should return to normal by the end of the night, and within 3 hours all was restored. It appears to me that the sole purpose of Sandvine is to reduce network traffic originating from P2P servers.
With this in mind, are we once again going to experience a halt to P2P traffic when they decide to re-implement Sandvine? I commend Insight for their quick response to the 12/13 issue, however, the 2 month outage this fall still irks me!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12134576 Thu, 16 Dec 2004 11:50:34 EDT