| reply to techie68
Re: Emails not getting through to my email account Maybe you need to learn what open relay actually means. No reputable server has open relay. ALL email programs have the availability to use authentication - in fact it is the default in Exim, Postfix and Qmail. I think you mean what type of authentication. The old standard was pop before send - the new one is smtp authentication. If you are running a server with open relay you deserve to not only be blocked - but to be shut down by your ISP. Only an idiot or a spammer configures a server to be an open relay.
And what is with the bashing of people not in the US. Do
you think all Europeans and the Japanese are idiots? They use the exact same MTA's as the rest of the world.
Look up the open relay blocking lists. If you or your friend server is on there - follow the instructions to fix the problem. It is simple, and saves the server owner both time and money. |
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| reply to kshymkiw
said by kshymkiw: said by techie68:I finally got an answer to this question, which actually kind of surprised me. Now, to let you all know, I work for Verizon dsl tech support (yeah, I know... we're all a bunch of idiots), and we were never informed about this change. Apparently, Verizon is blocking email coming from open relay mail servers. Essentially, this means that all email coming from servers that don't have an authentication process are being blocked. Open relay mail servers are typically hotbeds for spammers, as no authentication is necessary. Unfortunately, many email servers in Europe (and the rest of the world for that matter) are open relay. This is yet another brilliant idea that some idiot who doesn't know jack about computers making decisions for the company. I expect this to blow up in their faces sooner rather than later. Good luck to all of you. I would definitely email security@verizon.net and complain heartily about this. He is correct, being a Verizon tech as well, this was just explained to us. It is to block Scams and Spam. You have to call us and we have to Verify the e-mail address it is coming from, this can take up to 2 weeks to do. From Verizon: In Brief: VOL has changed its Blacklisting policy as part of our constant goal to reduce spam, viruses, phishing and other email threats. Security has been inundated with notifications of abuse during the holiday season. Due to the increase in abuse and email threats that VOL has experienced, some VOL customers’ email service may be partially disrupted. Blacklisting: VOL reserves the right to block IPs or Domains of suspected spamming sources. If a customer calls in and is able to send email to a customer but is not able to receive email from the email recipient (more prevalent from countries outside of the USA), the following troubleshooting steps should be completed: Process for Blacklisting: 1. Have the customer verify that forwarding is not enabled on the account. 2. Have the customer log in and check their Block Senders List. 3. Ensure that the customer inputs the domain into the Safe List. 4. The customer should then be informed that, due to security issues, policies are in place to protect all VOL customers. There is no ETR for these issues, but they will be resolved as soon as the recipient’s email domain has been validated (at least 2 weeks). 5. Then create a ticket using the OSC template that includes the domain, the mail server’s IP addresses, email servers and other pertinent information. The a$$hole in charge of VOL's email servers is Paul Wilson.
The SOB would never give me a straight answer on the Comcast 8-10 hour email delays that have gone on for years now.
I have said for years VOL has the spam filtering hardware but no one who knows how to properly use it.
I rest my case. |
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 AP
join:2001-10-15
West Covina, CA | reply to Laser0
Even after disabling spam detector, which mysteriously turns itself on all the time, I am still missing emails.
A lot of things are not getting through and there is no sign anything was ever sent.
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Sturgeon's Law: Ninety percent of everything is crap. |
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Rod P5Premium
join:2003-02-09
Purcellville, VA | reply to Laser0
I checked my account with several friends today in Germany and the Netherlands and E-Mail's sent from their accounts to my Verizon E-Mail account, are, in fact, not showing up... and its been over 12 hours. The same messages sent to my other ISP arrive in less than one minute. Something certainly is broken.
I've notified "security@verizon.net" as suggested elsewhere in this thread.
Rod P |
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Rod P5Premium
join:2003-02-09
Purcellville, VA | February 28, 2005 7:00 AM EST Update...
E-mail sent this weekend from Europe has not arrived, nor has E-Mail sent early today, Europe time (2:00 AM EST) has not arrived at any of my Verizon E-Mail addresses. Copies of these E-Mails have arrived at my other ISP (Roadstar), all within seconds of having been sent from Europe.
Rod P |
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 gracie7Geek GoddessPremium
join:2003-07-15
confusion | said by Rod P5:E-mail sent this weekend from Europe has not arrived i'm confused; returning late to this thread so haven't read through all the new posts, but are these addresses that you have specifically whitelisted, and the whitelist isn't working?
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graciella! "not tonight dear, I have DSL."
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Rod P5Premium
join:2003-02-09
Purcellville, VA | reply to Rod P5
One other comment...
The people in the uk, de and nl are not getting any indication that their E-Mail messages ARE NOT getting to me! Messages sent this weekend and today, not delivered, have not been notified of any delivery problem. I would note that the addresses in Europe sending me these test E-Mail messages are addresses that have been in use for over 10 years! They are business firms!
Rod P |
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Rod P5Premium
join:2003-02-09
Purcellville, VA | reply to gracie7
said by gracie7:are these addresses that you have specifically whitelisted, and the whitelist isn't working? What is a "whitelist"? I don't know what you are talking about. Are you saying I now have to generate a list of E-Mail addresses outside the US, inorder to continue to communicate with them via my Verizon account? |
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gracie7Geek GoddessPremium
join:2003-07-15
confusion | said by Rod P5: What is a "whitelist"? I don't know what you are talking about. guess it wasn't me who was confused  . This thread was started because verizon decided to block almost all international emails, and told its customers that if they wanted to unblock a specific addy, they had to call and whitelist it. while most of us did that with the one or two that we usually receive mail from, it is a PITA, and ridiculous for those who receive a lot of mail from different international addys.
did you read the thread from the beginning? i suspect that somewhere along the way, it got diverted, and both you and i may have missed a lot .
there is a class action lawsuit going on now about this. also covered earlier in this thread.
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graciella! "not tonight dear, I have DSL."
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Rod P5Premium
join:2003-02-09
Purcellville, VA | gracie, you're right, I am the one who is confused. With 11 pages of messages, I did not read them all. Bottom line is that I certainly don't like the issue and will have to pursue it further with Verizon. Thanks for your responses.
Rod P |
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kenyg
join:2001-02-09
19040 | reply to Laser0
As far as I know - one of the huge problems is that the emails DO NOT get bounced back to the sender. They just never show up to the recipient, and as far as the sender knows they have gone through - which in not the case.
Evidenlty Vz is just dumping them into a bit-bucket somewhere.
So, until your distant party calls you - you have no idea.
Until things are fixed - switch to another email - I did.
Ken
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aye aye captain! |
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| Verizon is simply blocking access to Port 25 (the SMTP port) from all European IP addresses, except for the handful that it has bothered to "whitelist". In other words, as far as any affected mail server on this side of the ocean is concerned, relay.verizon.net doesn't exist. In other words, the mail isn't being filtered, the verizon mail server is effectively hiding from us.
Normally an e-mail server will hang on to an e-mail and retry, often up to 7 days, before it decides that the server isn't coming back, and will then inform the sender that it couldn't deliver the message. So it might be as long as a week before the sender is notified that the message couldn't be delivered (and some servers might not give any notification, but I would have thought that that would be unusual).
One of the most aggravating things about this is that there is far more spam coming from the US than there is coming from Europe. |
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gracie7Geek GoddessPremium
join:2003-07-15
confusion | reply to Rod P5
said by Rod P5:gracie, you're right... Bottom line is that I certainly don't like the issue join the club! i've been such a verizon evangelist in the past, and am really furious at this ridiculous implementation of supposed "spam-reducing" measures...only a totally clueless technophobe could have thought this up. ironically, i get VERY little spam on my verizon accounts, thanks to their excellent spam filters well before they implemented this silliness, so to my mind, it wasn't even helpful.
and it sure as heck made a lot of us fans into pretty p-o'd customers! their spokesperson's comment that we should "use the phone" for important communications, and their asinine "whitelist" pseudo-solution, coupled with their refusal to admit that they screwed up and to back off from this misguided plan, added insult to injury. and i have my own domains so am able to still receive email from europe; i pity those who have no alternative other than getting a yahoo, etc. account. shameful.
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graciella! "not tonight dear, I have DSL."
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 keith2468Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-03
Winnipeg, MB | reply to Laser0
I've been a big proponent of enhanced spam filtering by ISPs.
But there is a right way and a wrong way to do it.
Verizon has gone about this in the most completely wrong way possible.
1. No advance notification to the customer.
2. No effective customer controlled overrides.
3. Applying the customer's whitelist after filtering, instead of before.
4. Xenophobic basis for filtering.
5. Deleting or withholding the email, rather than the normal process of routing it to "spam" folder that users can be access via webmail (which is what most ISPs do with non-viral spam).
Maybe they want to save money by having you choose to switch your email to hotmail.
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(Virus&Hijacking FAQ + Submit suspected malware + Backups FAQ + Security FAQ TOC) |
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| 5. Deleting or withholding the email, rather than the normal process of routing it to "spam" folder that users can be access via webmail (which is what most ISPs do with non-viral spam).
Just to be clear on this - Verizon isn't deleting or withholding the e-mail, they are refusing to accept delivery of the e-mail in the first place. |
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gracie7Geek GoddessPremium
join:2003-07-15
confusion | said by POed at VOL:
Just to be clear on this - Verizon isn't deleting or withholding the e-mail, they are refusing to accept delivery of the e-mail in the first place. definitely---and the sender SHOULD see that in his logs/bounced mail. much as i'm ticked off at VOL for the block, let's not blame them for holding on/throwing out mail. the senders i've had problems with were all getting bounced messages that the relay failed (i.e. they were not accepting delivery), notified me, and that gave me a chance to either whitelist them or, in most cases, just tell them to use my own domain addys.
let me tell you, there are a lot of people in europe now who think verizon stinks, just like a lot of affected users here. what a stupid move on their part!
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graciella! "not tonight dear, I have DSL."
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| gave me a chance to either whitelist them
You didn't whitelist anyone - you may have asked VOL to add your correspondents SMTP servers to a company wide whitelist, but it's important that you don't give the impression that any individual VOL customer can control which "foreign" e-mails make it through.
What did you have to do to get your correspondents mailservers whitelisted? My friends have given up calling VOL support on the issue, as they have repeatedly been ignored (and misled, and lied to, but that's about what they've come to expect from VOL anyway). |
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gracie7Geek GoddessPremium
join:2003-07-15
confusion | said by POed at VOL:
You didn't whitelist anyone - you may have asked VOL to add your correspondents SMTP servers to a company wide whitelist, but it's important that you don't give the impression that any individual VOL customer can control which "foreign" e-mails make it through. actually, i beg to differ. i DID whitelist them, and yes, any individual VOL customer CAN control which foreign emails make it through---to THEM. it is not necessarily a company-wide whitelist at all, though often when they see it is benign, they will make it so. this was a private correspondent with their own mail server, NOT an isp email user, so allowing their mail through TO ME should have been a cinch, and not taken the full four weeks and much yelling that it took.
so i share your annoyance with this ridiculous policy, but did want to clarify.
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graciella! "not tonight dear, I have DSL."
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| Gracie, if I telnet to port 25 on relay.verizon.net (the address listed in the MX record for verizon.net) the connection is refused. This refusal occurs before verizon knows what e-mail address I am sending from, or what e-mail address I am sending to. There is nothing that you, as an individual verizon customer, can do that will allow me to send e-mail to you, except to ask verizon to "whitelist" my address. And if Verizon does that, then my IP address is "whitelisted" for any and all connections that I make to their mail server, not just for e-mail sent to you.
Whether my e-mail makes it through any actual spam filters that occur further up the line, that you can control on a personal basis, is neither here nor there, as today my e-mails never make it as far as any spam filters.
So you can't "whitelist" me, or any of my e-mail addresses. You can add any addresses you like to your "whitelists", but as long as Verizon is blocking acess to their mail server from my ISPs IP addresses, then you'll be wasting your time. |
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gracie7Geek GoddessPremium
join:2003-07-15
confusion | said by POed at VOL:
So you can't "whitelist" me...as long as Verizon is blocking acess to their mail server from my ISPs IP addresses, then you'll be wasting your time.
again, to clarify...yes, the emails are blocked totally---until a u.s. verizon customer calls and requests the block be lifted---what we are calling "whitelisting" (different from the usual easy as pie whitelisting of just adding an address to a list so it isn't marked as spam). if you are a home user going through a large isp with a changing ip address, i guess it would be a challenge for them to do this. the cases in which i've done it have been for businesses. and verizon is VERY clear on this...customer calls, requests that a specific addy or block of ips is "whitelisted" (allowed to come through), and eventually, they are...IF verizon feels they are "worthy". .
we have now done this with four different european correspondents and have helped quite a few verizon users do it as well. so i think we may be disagreeing more on semantics...an individual customer CAN request this for an individual correspondent, and if it can be done without opening a huge hole (say, whitelisting an entire isp), verizon will do it.
i still fully abhor this stupid policy of theirs, just want to clarify.
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graciella! "not tonight dear, I have DSL."
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