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Comments on news posted 2008-12-29 18:13:32: For all the years we've watched the RIAA's "sue 'em all" scorched earth legal campaign, they've only really won one case in court, and that case was recently declared a mistrial. ..

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cybercrimes

join:2003-12-24
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verizon

The report does note that Verizon, who has traditionally shied away from playing Internet babysitter, so far has no plans to play along. Some of you might recall that Verizon has battled the RIAA previously over being forced to play content police

im happy im with verizon

SilverSurfer

join:2007-08-19
Give it rest, already

The RIAA is the coporate personification of insanity, which is defined as doing the same thing over and over again and again and expecting different results.


AnonMoose1

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Picture

Who are those people in the photo?


funchords
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1 edit
Why the RIAA wants the ISPs to be Judge and Executioner

The RIAA sees the handwriting on the wall, courts really really really like to see evidence. It's like justice that way, ya know?

said by »news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-10129640-93.html :

Judge Davis threw out the verdict in the case because he argued that "actual" distribution of copyrighted music must be proven for the law to be violated. Therefore, the RIAA had to prove that users downloaded the music that Thomas was making available through the peer-to-peer service. Simply making the content available is not a violation of copyright, under this reasoning.

But the RIAA has said that proving that songs have been downloaded from services like Kazaa is nearly impossible. As a result, the RIAA has long argued that making digital music available for others to download illegally is an infringement on copyright.

Over the years, judges have disagreed on this reasoning, and as a result, they have written different opinions on this issue. As a result, it's very likely that the legal issue of what constitutes copyright infringement will eventually be decided by the Supreme Court.
So if the ISPs were to become the RIAA's henchmen, then they can expect those targeted by this legally inept "DMCA Notice" methodology to "react poorly" (sue) after being cut off from their monopoly broadband provider without a shred of actual evidence. And when that happens, the RIAA is ironically not at risk because it's the ISP that took the ultimate harmful action against its own subscriber.

If the ISPs get conned into this, the RIAA walks free. After all, the RIAA just makes notice in good faith based on the information (even less information than in the cases that they actually take to court).

We now know that this information (even when really really good) isn't enough to prevail in court -- so the ISPs are setting themselves up for a lot of exposure here. Why fight the battle that they know -- in advance -- that they'll lose?

WHAT RIAA SHOULD DO

Consider all the information that shows that internet music is an excellent marketing tool. I don't know if it's true, but it's not like free FM-radio play really hurt concert and merchandising sales.

I still maintain that it's pretty distasteful to share a movie or album that is newly released. Reform copyright exclusions to recordings to 5 years, appeal to the people to get behind it as the right thing to do and get it passed, and if it becomes law -- go after the comparably few people that would abuse that. (Am I fooling myself here? I don't listen to much popular music so I'm not really much of a cultural insider.)

Jim Croce doesn't need another dollar for Bad Bad Leroy Brown.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon -- KJ7RL
What you do at Christmas does not matter so much; What counts are the Christmas things you do all year through.


Rob
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reply to AnonMoose1
Re: Picture

said by AnonMoose1 :

Who are those people in the photo?
Jammie Thomas and her lawyer.

RadioDoc
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reply to funchords
Re: Why the RIAA wants the ISPs to be Judge and Executioner

I doubt Jim needs much of anything or has for decades...

You may have inadvertently tripped over a major distinction here with "but it's not like free FM-radio play really hurt concert and merchandising sales". Revenues from concert tickets and merchandising sales rarely go to the record label...they are a primary revenue source for most bands though.

I know what you meant though. I have six shiny new CDs received as Christmas presents which I would never have even considered purchasing were it not for Internet radio, specifically Radio Paradise. The RIAA jams fingers in ears and hums loudly when approached with such proof of induced sales, which pretty much defines the problem.
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snipper_cr

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reply to cybercrimes
Re: verizon

said by cybercrimes See Profile :

The report does note that Verizon, who has traditionally shied away from playing Internet babysitter, so far has no plans to play along. Some of you might recall that Verizon has battled the RIAA previously over being forced to play content police

im happy im with verizon
I remember quite a few years ago, when the scortched earth practice started, and the AAs started going to the ISPs for customer information, verizon was one of the first to really stand up and protect their customers legal rights. Not to say that others didn't, but they were featured doing it mroe.
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funchords
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reply to RadioDoc
Re: Why the RIAA wants the ISPs to be Judge and Executioner

said by RadioDoc See Profile :

You may have inadvertently tripped over a major distinction here with "but it's not like free FM-radio play really hurt concert and merchandising sales". Revenues from concert tickets and merchandising sales rarely go to the record label...they are a primary revenue source for most bands though.
Yeah, I didn't know that.

But today's labels don't develop talent, either, do they? I know that 50-30 years ago, after an act was discovered, there was actual training and development involved.

So their services are probably less. Concerts do sell CDs -- I bought a CD this summer in a subway out of a guitar case. It was a a-capella doo-wop trio from Philadelphia called "the Underwoods" -- they were hosting an impromptu show and were quite good!
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kadar
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reply to funchords
Wouldn't that nullify the safe harbor clause?


ztmike
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1 edit
 ISP babysitters for free?

I think the only way ISP's will play along with the RIAA of becoming babysitters is if the RIAA/MPAA pay those ISP's a premium, because I don't see the ISP doing this for nothing $$ wise.

Which would become quite expensive for the AA's if they had to pay each ISP for that.

EasyDoesIt

join:2005-04-12

reply to funchords
Re: Why the RIAA wants the ISPs to be Judge and Executioner

said by funchords See Profile :

Jim Croce doesn't need another dollar for Bad Bad Leroy Brown.
Unfortunately Jim Croce died in an accident in 1973. He was one of my favorites.

Mr Matt

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 Hopefully the shakedown's will be stopped.

First of all I do not condone giving away creative works copyrighted by others. Up until the Internet revolution, individuals were immune from observation of such activities such as home taping. The fact that subscribers traded copyrighted music files over the internet, and knew that their activities could be observed by the RIAA demonstrated that these people were not the brightest bulbs in the string. All their activities did was to give copyright holders ammunition to insist that government require implementation of more draconian copyright protection schemes.

On the other hand the shakedown methodology being used by the RIAA has been in place for years. The RIAA has always used calculated extortion to shake down those businesses targeted for such transgressions as playing copyrighted music without paying a fee to the RIAA. In such a case RIAA Lawyers would figure out how much it would cost the defendant to pay an attorney to defend the business against a frivolous RIAA Lawsuit. The dollar amount demanded would be less than it would cost for the business to defend itself against the lawsuit. In most cases, business management would roll over and write a check to avoid wasting time and money to defend the business against the lawsuit. Since the defendant was a business, management could pay and simply write off the cost as a business expense. On the other hand if the business management took a strong position on the matter and threatened to strongly defend themselves, the RIAA lawyers would simply go away. Individuals do not have the luxury of writing off such a settlement as a business expense. The RIAA is not a government agency and should be sanctioned for impersonating a government agency.

FDM80

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reply to cybercrimes
Re: verizon

I think the reason verizon isn't playing along is that they know that if they do, they will end up footing the bill for being the police.

Unless the RIAA finds a way to make the ISPs play along and not burden them with additional costs then I don't see the ISPs cooperating.


S_engineer

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reply to funchords
Re: Why the RIAA wants the ISPs to be Judge and Executioner

said by funchords See Profile :

Jim Croce doesn't need another dollar for Bad Bad Leroy Brown.
Well since Jim is 6 feet under, he wouldnt get to spend the dollar anyway...which is another point. The RIAA supposedly did this in the best interest of the artists, but yet the artists made no money off of this extortion racket...but I digress. Back to Jim...I think its the estate of "Jim" thats trying to still milk whatever royalties that he may have had.
Maybe the RIAA should worry more about setting a mandatory retirement age for these "rockstars" so we don't have to see Mick Jagger drinking Metamucil while wearing Spandex on the Stones Social Security Tour!
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funchords
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reply to EasyDoesIt
said by EasyDoesIt See Profile :

said by funchords See Profile :

Jim Croce doesn't need another dollar for Bad Bad Leroy Brown.
Unfortunately Jim Croce died in an accident in 1973.
Yeah, I know. But since this thread isn't about MPAA, I can't use my copyrighted "Walt Disney / Mickey Mouse" line.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon -- KJ7RL
What you do at Christmas does not matter so much; What counts are the Christmas things you do all year through.

Kearnstd
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reply to funchords
Music and movies should be limited to 7 years copyright, honestly a good band will make their money in that time and a good band will make much more off their live shows. movies well if it really sucks it was gunna loose money anyway.
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1 edit
Drop the first 'L' in the title

It should read "RIAA's Legal Assault On P2P Still Failing". Failing to stop "piracy", that is.

Not only are they on the ropes as far as all the lawsuits go, but p2p use continues to increase if you include IRC, Newsgroups, and direct download sites like Rapidshare in the numbers of people downloading music online.

But at the same time, mp3 download sites like Amazon's are doing a pretty good business - at least one of the major labels recently said that sales from digital media had exceeded those of physical CDs for the first time in their history. I believe it was Atlantic who reported this, though I'm not sure.
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jbgroup1
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said by Doctor Four See Profile :

It should read "RIAA's Legal Assault On P2P Still Failing". Failing to stop "piracy", that is.
No, flailing is appropriate as it means that there is a desperate attempt to try but there is no apparent success.
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K Patterson
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reply to Mr Matt
Re: Hopefully the shakedown's will be stopped.

said by Mr Matt See Profile :



On the other hand the shakedown methodology being used by the RIAA has been in place for years. The RIAA has always used calculated extortion to shake down those businesses targeted for such transgressions as playing copyrighted music without paying a fee to the RIAA. In such a case RIAA Lawyers would figure out how much it would cost the defendant to pay an attorney to defend the business against a frivolous RIAA Lawsuit. The dollar amount demanded would be less than it would cost for the business to defend itself against the lawsuit. In most cases, business management would roll over and write a check to avoid wasting time and money to defend the business against the lawsuit. Since the defendant was a business, management could pay and simply write off the cost as a business expense. On the other hand if the business management took a strong position on the matter and threatened to strongly defend themselves, the RIAA lawyers would simply go away. Individuals do not have the luxury of writing off such a settlement as a business expense. The RIAA is not a government agency and should be sanctioned for impersonating a government agency.
While you must have a license to play music publicly, RIAA has nothing to do with it. One obtains a license from BMI normally, or buys a service such as Muzak which handles the licensing.


mOjO_420

join:2008-08-20
Bartlett, IL

reply to FDM80
Re: verizon

said by FDM80 See Profile :

I think the reason verizon isn't playing along is that they know that if they do, they will end up footing the bill for being the police.
I disagree. When the Post-911 illegal wiretapping started Verizon resisted then too. Of course they were bullied into it anyway but they were the only one of the big dogs to put up a fight even. You could not call that a profit-driven move. One could argue that it was for PR purposes but I generally think that Verizon is one of the few that believes in civil rights and privacy at some level. How deep that goes is the question...
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