Cheese
Premium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
clubs: | Promises.....
Can be broken... |
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Subaru
1-3-2-4
Premium
join:2001-05-31
Greenwich, CT
clubs:  | that's the truth |
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sousademiami
join:2003-02-04
Hialeah, FL
 ·Comcast
 ·AT&T Southeast
| Damn Skippy
It's a FREE MARKET! Locked handsets and closed networks are all part of the innovation and great customer value offered in a true free market. You can always just switch carriers if you don't like yours!
Unregulated competition at it's finest!
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OASAASLLS |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| What's He Talking About?
quote:
Cooper calls the locked down handset and closed network models of today's carriers reminiscent of AT&T's control of the landline system in the 1950's.
If that's true then why is it possible to bring your own unlocked GSM/EDGE (3G if you know what you are doing) handset to either AT&T or T-Mobile?
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"At the moment of conception." |
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NewMariner
join:2005-06-24
| Maybe Regulation wasnt such a good thing
They only do this to compete with other providers. They spend millions on ads, and trying to keep cost down with other providers. Maybe if things actually were a Monopoly we would have faster/better service. I remember service before 1983, and I have to say it was more reliable and a better overall experience then what we have today. Now they spend their money in ads instead of research.
Maybe one day we will realize competition doesnt spur innovation or lower prices one day... |
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N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
 ·Verizon FIOS
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by NewMariner  :They only do this to compete with other providers. They spend millions on ads, and trying to keep cost down with other providers. Maybe if things actually were a Monopoly we would have faster/better service. I remember service before 1983, and I have to say it was more reliable and a better overall experience then what we have today. Now they spend their money in ads instead of research. Maybe one day we will realize competition doesnt spur innovation or lower prices one day... Sure, some aspects of phone service were better before the breakup, but there are tons of technologies we would never have without it.
Things like;
DSL
VoIP
Fios (you would never have seen FTTH without the breakup)
Affordable long distance.
People tend to remember "the good old days" and filter out all the negative shit from the past. I'm guilty of it too. Sometimes I'm nostalgic for my high school days, and then I sit and really think about it. HS sucked a bag of dicks.
It's a defense mechanism built into the psyche of every human being. If we had to dwell on every little thing that sucked in our past, we would never be able to get out of bed in the morning.
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Petty people are disproportionably corrupted by petty power… |
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Combat Chuck
Too Many Cannibals
Premium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA
| reply to pnh102
Re: What's He Talking About?
The problem has little to do with carriers, it has everything to do with people only valuing initial price when they shop for everything. People want a free handset, free talktime and all this other stuff, they don't care about anything else...that is until after they buy into a plan and then they bitch about everything else.
The problem with the free market is that it requires both sellers and buyers to think about how they interact with the market compare alternatives and then act in their best interest. The sellers are doing that, the buyers aren't doing anything but the bare minimum, they want the sellers to do the work for them to act in the buyers best interest which makes absolutely no sense (would you ask the guy robbing your house for recommendations of security systems).
Devo wrote a song about it:
»www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9hpMgKI_NU
"Freedom of choice
Is what you got
Freedom from choice
Is what you want"
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The world’s elusive, remember
where love's the leaf
faith, the river
what's born as flame dies in ember
see for yourself! |
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nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
·Comcast
| reply to pnh102
said by pnh102 : quote:
Cooper calls the locked down handset and closed network models of today's carriers reminiscent of AT&T's control of the landline system in the 1950's.
If that's true then why is it possible to bring your own unlocked GSM/EDGE (3G if you know what you are doing) handset to either AT&T or T-Mobile? OK,how about this:
"...reminiscent of AT&T's control of the landline system ...up until earlier this year." |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| said by nasadude :"...reminiscent of AT&T's control of the landline system ...up until earlier this year." This year?
I've been swapping out cell phones with AT&T ever since I got my first GSM handset back in 2002. I've used a few different unlocked phones, as well as locked phones that I bought from AT&T that I later unlocked.
I understand that this kind of choice may not work with Sprint, Verizon or Alltel, but I don't think most people really care about this non-issue. Every carrier offers many different kinds of phones at all price points. Couple that with the fact that most people are probably more interested in any carrier that has good service where they use their phones the most and I think the original complaint about a "lack of choice" is really more of a non-issue than anything else.
I really find it hard to fault a system that allows you to get a phone for literally nothing while simply paying for basic monthly service.
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"At the moment of conception." |
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keyboard5684
join:2001-08-01
Youngsville, PA
 ·Teliax VOIP
 ·WestPAnet Inc.
·WestPAnet Inc. CA..
| reply to Combat Chuck
Of course you would ask the guy robbing your house on the best security system, who is going to know best?
I think shoppers are more aware, now, about what plans they are buying into than the phones and accessories. I disagree with you because by now every single one of us has in one way or another been raped by a "plan" that was supposed to save us money.
You say "both sellers and buyers to think about how they interact with the market" yet the buyer is going for just that, the bare minimum and the seller is going for the maximum. It is working how it is supposed to.
Your post almost sounds like an angry cell shop worker.
The point made is that this is not what was envisioned, this was not the plan, this was not what they wanted when they invented and released it.
We need to get away from this phone companies owning the phone. We need to get away from carriers charging so much for things like texting (I mean $10 a month for 300 messages?).
It ALL looks exactly like the AT&T bell system that was back in the day where the telephone company owned everything.
What will happen, is the same thing... revolution. VOIP in my mind is a small revolution and it will get far worse. People, when free, will break out of these locked in BS and go free.
Example, In my area it is very "hilly", the terrain is rough. Someone on top of what most would call a mountain (we call a hill), puts up a nice WIFI system ONLY for VOIP over WIFI systems. BAM, free calls (except the $4.95 to the VOIP provider and $30 per month to the bandwidth provider, no not verizon or any of those). Limited coverage but it is a start.
People want free... of course they do. But this is where both sides, the buyer and the seller, have to come together or the buyer will break away and the SELLER LOSES.
No one intended it to get this way, it did. Now something needs to happen before we see a cell bubble pop. |
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wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
·Verizon FIOS
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·RoadRunner Cable
·BroadVoice
| reply to pnh102
said by pnh102 :said by nasadude :"...reminiscent of AT&T's control of the landline system ...up until earlier this year." This year? I've been swapping out cell phones with AT&T ever since I got my first GSM handset back in 2002. I've used a few different unlocked phones, as well as locked phones that I bought from AT&T that I later unlocked. I understand that this kind of choice may not work with Sprint, Verizon or Alltel, but I don't think most people really care about this non-issue. Every carrier offers many different kinds of phones at all price points. Couple that with the fact that most people are probably more interested in any carrier that has good service where they use their phones the most and I think the original complaint about a "lack of choice" is really more of a non-issue than anything else. I really find it hard to fault a system that allows you to get a phone for literally nothing while simply paying for basic monthly service. I agree. People quickly forget that the reason 99% of wireless customers are locked into contracts or devices is because they want them for nothing. If you want an unlocked phone you can take with you and use around the world you need to pay full price for it. I have been paying up to $1000 for phones for years, and this gives me the flexibility to what I please with them. Look at it another way:
"YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY (OR DONT PAY) FOR"
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Комитет государственной безопасности
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mahony
join:2000-06-24
Modesto, CA | reply to sousademiami
Re: Damn Skippy
unregulated? LOL Our wireless services suck compared to most of the world. |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
|  Cooper has conflict of interest on his major complaints
»www.forbes.com/technology/2008/1···per.html
That cellphone companies infrastructure is wrong:
It's no coincidence that Cooper sees smart antennas as the savior of the wireless industry: He serves as chairman of ArrayComm, a company that develops software for using antenna arrays to calculate the origin of cell signals. Cooper founded the San Jose, Calif.-based company in 1992 after 29 years at Motorola That smartphones are too complex:
But the cellphone patriarch had less kind words for the smart phones that Android runs on and even fewer for the iPhone. Cooper advocates simpler, specialized devices--his wife is the creator of the Jitterbug, a hyper-simple phone for the elderly. And his complaint that wireless isn't ubiquitous:
"We were promised affordable, ubiquitous broadband wireless for everyone," he told a crowd of engineers. "That promise is still just a promise." Well, out of a population of 303 million, 85.7% of the people have cellphones. If you subtract the very aged and the very young, that is just about everybody. And that sure sounds ubiquitous to me.
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk? |
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mize
@charter.com |  reply to N3OGH
Re: Maybe Regulation wasnt such a good thing
Lol, any post that can include "bag of dicks" and not sound completely belligerent gets a thumbs up from me.  |
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ravital
Just Another Pesky Independent Nh Voter
Premium
join:2001-07-19
Merrimack, NH
| A different version of protectionism, that's all
Imagine this: You can walk into any mobile phone store, and buy any mobile phone you like, with full, 100% confidence, that it will work with whatever carrier you choose.
Impossible? That's how 300 million Europeans shop for mobile phones and carriers. Why? Because European governments got together and said so. Period.
Result? In a country like Italy, to cite just one example, where they can't keep the trains running on time, the market penetration for carriers is 150%. No typo, one-hundred-and-fifty percent. That means, every 3 Italians, on average, own 2 SIM cards between them. That's right, people actually sign up for multiple plans and carry multiple SIM cards with them, because they like one carrier's evening rates, and a different carrier's weekend rates, and so on.
But here? Heaven forbid that mega-corporations should actually have to compete with each other.
I don't like government regulation, not one bit. But it does have merits, sometimes.
A few years ago, a wise DSLR member taught me something invaluable: "Telecommunications issues are complex, and require a lot of study, to be properly understood. But there is a useful mental proxy to this: Figure out what the incumbents want (which is easy, they'll tell you), and support the opposite."
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"Eating and sleeping are the only activities that should be allowed to interrupt a man's enjoyment of his cigar"
Mark Twain |
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wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
·Verizon FIOS
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·RoadRunner Cable
·BroadVoice
| said by ravital :Imagine this: You can walk into any mobile phone store, and buy any mobile phone you like, with full, 100% confidence, that it will work with whatever carrier you choose. I have been doing just that for over 10 years now, as have many other people. Granted I wasnt using CDMA handsets, but neither do millions of people elsewhere in the world. The beauty of GSM phones is that you simply drop in a SIM and go, this is nothing new.
said by ravital :Impossible? That's how 300 million Europeans shop for mobile phones and carriers. Why? Because European governments got together and said so. Period. I think you are confusing a few things. Firstly, the European governments had absolutely nothing to do with this. In Europe all the countries use GSM so by default all the phones are compatible. Secondly, many Europeans purchase (at full price) unlocked phones. With an unlocked phone you can purchase a SIM card in Houston or Helsinki, drop it into the phone and go.
As I mentioned above, you can walk into thousands of brick and mortar stores in this country (and many thousands more online) and purchase your very own unlocked phone. However, be prepared to pay a few hundred dollars for it. The real problem with the situation in this country is that most consumers want their phone for free. The carriers are more than happy to provide it at little or no cost, however it then comes locked down and usually with a mandatory contract.
I find it humorous that people are still confused/puzzled/dismayed by this whole concept. IF YOU DONT WANT A LOCKED PHONE BE PREPARED TO PAY FOR IT.
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Комитет государственной безопасности
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wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
·Verizon FIOS
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·RoadRunner Cable
·BroadVoice
| reply to ravital
said by ravital :That's how 300 million Europeans shop for mobile phones and carriers. Why? Because European governments got together and said so. Period. This is a common misconception on this website, so for clarity please see below. The decision for Europe to adopt GSM was driven by the 'European Telecommunications Standards Institute', not by the governments.
quote:
The European Telecommunications Standards Institute (ETSI) is an independent, non-profit, standardization organization of the telecommunications industry (equipment makers and network operators) in Europe, with worldwide projection. ETSI has been successful in standardizing the GSM cell phone system and the TETRA professional mobile radio system.
I added the bold to the above description to further illustrate the point. So in reality, equipment makers and network operators decided to use the same format so they could make more money. Its funny how GSM was a business decision, NOT a government mandated or socialism driven process.
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_T···nstitute
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Комитет государственной безопасности
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touchtone561
join:2007-12-10
Lake Worth, FL
·AT&T Southeast
| reply to wifi4milez
Re: What's He Talking About?
I agree somewhat. But the business models of AT&T and T-Mobile do not reward you from BYOD "Bring your own device" 
So although we can buy our own GSM/UMTS devices we still pay a subsidy surcharge in the service plans to run those devices at their full capacity / capabilities. Since the typical phone lasts 18 - 24 months, what is the benefit for the average user to buy them outright?
Now if there was a BYOD discount then...  |
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N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
·Verizon FIOS
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to TKJunkMail
Re: Cooper has conflict of interest on his major complaints
No shit.
It never fails man, always follow the money.
I HATE those Jitterbug commercials. Now I can't get that song out of my head. Thanks a lot....
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Petty people are disproportionably corrupted by petty power… |
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jimbo48
join:2000-11-17
Hayward, CA
·AT&T DSL Service
·EarthLink
| reply to wifi4milez
Re: A different version of protectionism, that's all
Why would I pay hundreds of dollars for a CDMA phone then get that phone to work with a GSM carrier It doesn't matter if its locked or inlocked if the carrier can't provide the coverahge and the reliability that I fully expect to receive. Nothing worse than paying full prooce for a phone then suffer with a slip-shod half-assed service and get gouged by such things as having to pay for text messages from some crap-head selling "sex drugs and the only way to keep from having to pay is to block ALL texting. I personally don't want a Communication device that includes a crappy camera, a miserable MP3 player , a texting keyboard made for midgets all housed in a recycled plastic case scrapped from the refuse piles that were shipped to China.
If I'm going to pay for this service I want and demand that that service delivers on its contract, a connection that works when I want or need it and not have to continually monitor the billing for "mysterious charges" that are nothing but addiitonal revenue gleaned from the unwary public. The Telco industry is sleazy and they sure as hell aren't going out of thier way to be fair or honest to the public. If they think they can get away with it they will. Okay you say if you don't like it don't sign with them Fine but I don't need to help subsidize their operations either with monopolies that utilize public property.
Bottom line,I would want a cell phone carrier that could deal honestly with my 87 year old mother-in law and not take her to the cleaners and charging for texting, SMS and Data transmissions because they know she doesn't know what these terms means. she just wants a cellphone that she can rely on to make a call if needed. |
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