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Comments on news posted 2008-10-16 09:43:40: Somewhere, the National Association of Broadcasters is crying. ..

page: 1 · 2 · 3
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mod_wastrel

join:2008-03-28
OK...

I'd like to nominate my area as a test market.

Sammer

join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA


2 edits
Not so fast

"Several tests were performed with DTV signals present in adjacent channels.
These tests showed that in the presence of moderate-to-strong signals in a first adjacent channel, the detection threshold sensitivity of all of the devices was severely impacted.
For some of the devices, the degradation in the detection sensitivity was as much as 60- 70 dB.
In some cases, the degradation was such that the detection threshold could not be measured.
This could impact significantly the ability of the devices to reliably detect TV signals within stations’ service areas."

"In some instances, the Adaptrum, I2R, and Motorola (in sensing only mode)
devices incorrectly reported channels as unoccupied (available) when the
WSD was operated within a station’s service contour and the signal was
viewable."

BTW, anyone who has seen what a mess the FCC database currently is has to wonder how well geo-location will work.

Mr Matt

join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
·Comcast
·Embarq

 White Space Broadband Needed Here!

I will be very disappointed if the White Space ISP's do not begin deploying service in this area. Unlike a metropolitan area it is impossible to predict if broadband will be available at any home in this area. An ISP representative told me that I am in a suburban area, which is an area transitioning from rural to metropolitan. Their albi is that it is impossible for incumbent ISP's to serve all homes. It appears that the ISP's are only putting their money in equipment to offer service in newly created subdivisions. Many homes outside of those subdivisions are simply not served by broadband via Cable or DSL. There seems to be more Wild Blue and Hughes Net antennas in this area than I have seen anywhere else. I do hope that the White Space providers start providing service in this area first.

axus

join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL

Let's give it a try

I think it's a great idea, lets use our bandwidth more efficiently. But, we have to be willing to pull the plug if it doesn't work out. Broadband over power line was worth trying, but we didn't give it a pass to go interfering with everything. We've got to be willing to pull the licenses if implementers can't make the technology behave.

Sammer

join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA

said by axus See Profile :

We've got to be willing to pull the licenses if implementers can't make the technology behave.
How do you pull the license of unlicensed devices?


TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast

reply to Sammer
Re: Not so fast

said by Sammer See Profile :

"Several tests were performed with DTV signals present in adjacent channels.
These tests showed that in the presence of moderate-to-strong signals in a first adjacent channel, the detection threshold sensitivity of all of the devices was severely impacted.
For some of the devices, the degradation in the detection sensitivity was as much as 60- 70 dB.
In some cases, the degradation was such that the detection threshold could not be measured.
This could impact significantly the ability of the devices to reliably detect TV signals within stations’ service areas."

"In some instances, the Adaptrum, I2R, and Motorola (in sensing only mode)
devices incorrectly reported channels as unoccupied (available) when the
WSD was operated within a station’s service contour and the signal was
viewable."

BTW, anyone who has seen what a mess the FCC database currently is has to wonder how well geo-location will work.
The FCC engineers in the report have cautioned about all the problems. But Martin is going forward as if their reservations were irrelevant. The use of White Space spectrum is going to move forward no matter what it does in interfering with DTV transmissions. As usual, the FCC is making a political decision and not an engineering one.
--
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Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?


TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast

reply to axus
Re: Let's give it a try

said by axus See Profile :

I think it's a great idea, lets use our bandwidth more efficiently. But, we have to be willing to pull the plug if it doesn't work out. Broadband over power line was worth trying, but we didn't give it a pass to go interfering with everything. We've got to be willing to pull the licenses if implementers can't make the technology behave.
Good luck with pulling licenses for an "unlicensed service". Once the go ahead is given, if interference happens, no one can call in all the unlicensed interfering devices that will be out there.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?


DavePR

join:2008-06-04
·DSL EXTREME


1 edit
I'm hearing Howard Stern on my NPR station

Once you flood the market with cheap devices there is no chance to recall them if a problem is later discovered. Take for example all the illegal Sirius (and XM) radios with FM modulators that are way too powerful.

I don't see how a cost-effective device can be built. How will the geolocation requirement be met? GPS? Indoors?

How will the access to a database requirement be met? WiFi?

SmokChsr
Who let the magic smoke out?
Premium
join:2006-03-17
Saint Augustine, FL

Physics, We don't need No stinking Physics!

For quite some time the FCC has been rewriting the laws of physics in order to make their new rules work. This looks to be yet another one of those times. If this is approved, especially non-licensed, over the air TV will most likely face severe interference, rendering it useless in many areas.

probboy

join:2008-01-10
Natick, MA

Why is this so complicated?

I'm assuming, since this is for a "new broadband delivery method," that a company would have to set up a series of transceivers (like cell towers) to interface these wireless devices with an existing, land-based network. Why can't the consumer devices listen across all channels for instructions from the tower as to which channel to use? Then there wouldn't be a need for the device to use GPS, database look-ups, etc.

Am I missing something? Is this supposed to be a replacement for Wi-Fi (for example), which would negate the "new broadband delivery method"?

While a 6 Mhz television channel can carry a bit of data long-distances, it still seems like it would be fairly expensive to set up all the infrastructure for a third pipe. This might work well as a last mile replacement in areas without DSL or cable, assuming they set it up similar to a cell phone network (relatively low power transceivers covering small areas).

cornelius785

join:2006-10-26
Worcester, MA
reply to SmokChsr
Re: Physics, We don't need No stinking Physics!

proof?

axus

join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC
reply to Sammer
Re: Let's give it a try

By using the same authority that the FCC is using to block them right now, obviously. Do you think Microsoft would take the time to get it right on the first try, if they weren't being coerced?


aSic
application specific
Premium
join:2001-05-17
Wakulla, FL
clubs:

reply to DavePR
Re: I'm hearing Howard Stern on my NPR station

Tell me where I can get one of these "way too powerful" transmitters. Cause all the XM units I've had since they launched have been uber-weak. Now you cant even get one with a fm modulator.

One or two complaints from people with prepaid legal always ruins things for everyone.


Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..

reply to DavePR
said by DavePR See Profile :

Once you flood the market with cheap devices there is no chance to recall them if a problem is later discovered. Take for example all the illegal Sirius (and XM) radios with FM modulators that are way too powerful.
I think you're confusing this with the fact that Sirius and XM installed repeater stations that were broadcasting with a more powerful signal than they were allowed to.
--
Linux Haters Unite!

russotto

join:2000-10-05
Collegeville, PA

White space = no TV

For some of the devices, the degradation in the detection sensitivity was as much as 60- 70 dB.
In some cases, the degradation was such that the detection threshold could not be measured.
This could impact significantly the ability of the devices to reliably detect TV signals within stations’ service areas."
Yeah, there's the understatement of the century. 70dB is the difference between an excellent signal and nothing at all.

In fringe areas it will be even worse. Anyone who uses a pre-amp will have all their channels blown away by nearby white space devices.


MrMoody
Carbon Based Lifeform

join:2002-09-03
Smithfield, NC
·Embarq
·Skype
·magicjack.com

reply to probboy
Re: Why is this so complicated?

said by probboy See Profile :

While a 6 Mhz television channel can carry a bit of data long-distances, it still seems like it would be fairly expensive to set up all the infrastructure for a third pipe. This might work well as a last mile replacement in areas without DSL or cable, assuming they set it up similar to a cell phone network (relatively low power transceivers covering small areas).
Look! Someone thinking critically instead of greedily drinking Microgoogle's third-pipe kool-aid.

Yes, it might work for small areas, but why? WiMax has much more bandwidth, is less susceptible to interference, and costs no more to set up.

I'm getting really tired of saying this will be used for phones/SMS/light data and NOT broadband. But by offering the mythical third pipe everyone is starving for, Microgoogle have gotten it rammed through, free TV be damned.
--
"The sacrosanct free market would supposedly regulate itself. The problem with that approach is that regulations are just rules. If there are no rules, the players can cheat." - Ellen Hodgson Brown, JD


MrMoody
Carbon Based Lifeform

join:2002-09-03
Smithfield, NC
reply to Mr Matt
Re: White Space Broadband Needed Here!

There will never be such a thing as "whitespace broadband," it is physically impossible and an oxymoron.

SmokChsr
Who let the magic smoke out?
Premium
join:2006-03-17
Saint Augustine, FL
reply to cornelius785
Re: Physics, We don't need No stinking Physics!

Proof, just look at HD (IBOC) radio. Where you put digital noise in your first adjacent (FM) first & Second (AM) and then say it will cause no interference, cause we said so. Darn now we don't understand why it's not working like we thought.

GaffMan

join:2007-08-10
Sedalia, MO

reply to Mr Matt
Re: White Space Broadband Needed Here!

You know I can understand why the incumbent providers do not want people in the suburbs to have broadband.But I will never understand how come so many regular people are so against people who leave a quarter mile out of town from having broadband????


ieolus
Support The Clecs

join:2001-06-19
Duluth, GA
reply to TKJunkMail
Re: Not so fast

What is your problem with competition?
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