pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
 ·Comcast
|  Question For Verizon Customers
A friend of mine who has Verizon told me that in the web-based account manager, you can change the phone you use with the account by changing the ESN (or something similar). Has anyone tried this with a non-Verizon unlocked CDMA phone, like say, something from Sprint?
--
"At the moment of conception." |
|
DaveNJ
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
1 edit | GSM the already open network
Most if not all GSM networks are open, So why bother with a cdma carrier. Verizon just did it for show anyway. When LTE gets here they better open there network or ATT, Tmobile will clobber them. |
|
EPS
join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA | There's one problem with your statement: 99% of American cell-phone users don't care how open the network is.
(WARNING: Said statistic is made up) |
|
Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
 ·North State Commun..
| reply to pnh102
Re: Question For Verizon Customers
said by pnh102  :A friend of mine who has Verizon told me that in the web-based account manager, you can change the phone you use with the account by changing the ESN (or something similar). Has anyone tried this with a non-Verizon unlocked CDMA phone, like say, something from Sprint? You would have to flash it with the Verizon BREW software. It may work for a PDA or Blackberry, but it's doubtful it would work for a normal handset without a lot of work.
In HowardForums, there are howtos for flashing phones with other software, but it involves firmware hacks to trick the system you're trying to activate the phone on to work with another carriers software ... and even then, a lot of features don't work.
--
Linux Haters Unite! |
|
pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| said by Matt :You would have to flash it with the Verizon BREW software. It may work for a PDA or Blackberry, but it's doubtful it would work for a normal handset without a lot of work. Hmm. Sounds like a nice way to make a doorstop if one is not careful.
--
"At the moment of conception." |
|
nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
·Comcast
| reply to EPS
Re: GSM the already open network
said by EPS :There's one problem with your statement: 99% of American cell-phone users don't care how open the network is. (WARNING: Said statistic is made up) I don't think it's a matter of "don't care", it's a matter of being "clueless". people may bitch about cost, but they have no idea why the carriers can rip 'em a new a-hole on text messaging or other low cost (to the carriers) services. |
|
patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| reply to pnh102
Re: Question For Verizon Customers
said by pnh102 :A friend of mine who has Verizon told me that in the web-based account manager, you can change the phone you use with the account by changing the ESN (or something similar). Has anyone tried this with a non-Verizon unlocked CDMA phone, like say, something from Sprint? Won't work on paper. A handset must be tested by Verizon to meet their requirements (all the requirements are available for the public to read). I believe you can also self-certify your handset if you have enough time and $1000s lieing around (you need a base station emulator for most of the tests, and at one point a trip to Bedminster NJ to VZW's headquarter for a A-GPS accuracy test).
The requirements include menu fragements and GUI layout/phone layout requirements to make it simple for VZW customer service reps to do troubleshooting on your phone when it goes out to subscribers. This "Open" platform is intended for phone OEMs and phone hardware developers with access to PCB fabrication and assembly, multiple Electrical Engineers on staff, 3d printers or plastic injection mold equipment and all of Qualcomm's docs and IP licenses. It is NOT intended for a garage amateur at all. I guess its intended for a 5-30 employee company.
Another requirement is you MUST provide PST software for your phone to VZW, so if a subscriber brings in your phone to a VZW store, the VZW store can tinker with its settings and plug it into their computer. The phone manufacturer is forbidden from distributing the PST program to subscribers. Another kind of shocking feature is that VZW requires the phones have push type configuration uploads, which exceeds their own standards (*228, which is a pull system), so if subscriber does hack/tinker with the phone, VZW will instantly reset it to what VZW wants. The settings are network specific settings of how the phone talks with the network, they don't control user experience.
Also all FCC and US Govt/Big Brother rules apply. TTY support, AGPS (although your phone must have a privacy menu, and there is a Open platform certification test for the privacy feature to make sure it works, also VZW says they do not have network initiated GPS reading, and phones aren't required to respond to a network initiated GPS reading (so no silently tracking your GPS coords)).
Once VZW approves the phone, then you mail them a list of ESNs to allow onto the network. The old days of activating any ESN will NEVER come back. Its illegal (no guarantee of AGPS support, or TTY, or users not getting stuff for free through hacks, or of Qualcomm being paid their IP fees). |
|
EPS
join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA | reply to nasadude
Re: GSM the already open network
That's probably a more accurate way.
But I do think most consumers don't care about the openness of the platform, only really what will save them money, what works, and what is easy to use, whether it comes directly from VZW or someone else. |
|
wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
 ·Verizon FIOS
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·RoadRunner Cable
 ·BroadVoice
| reply to nasadude
said by nasadude :said by EPS :There's one problem with your statement: 99% of American cell-phone users don't care how open the network is. (WARNING: Said statistic is made up) I don't think it's a matter of "don't care", it's a matter of being "clueless". people may bitch about cost, but they have no idea why the carriers can rip 'em a new a-hole on text messaging or other low cost (to the carriers) services. I think you are mostly correct. However, the real issue is that Americans will never embrace "open" cell phones for one simple reason; the cost. Look around on this website, and other similar websites, about what US consumers are saying about cell phones. Its basically a whine-fest about how expensive phones are. What US consumers dont realize is that the reason their phones are so cheap (yes, I consider $100 to $300 to be VERY cheap for a phone) is because the carrier subsidizes the handset. In Europe on the other hand, most consumers purchase unlocked phones (with no subsidy) for between $500 and $1000. I would say the vast majority of the phones I have purchased in the past 10 years are unlocked European and Asian GSM units that cost me roughly $600 to $1000 each. I have multiple cell phone providers, and have been off contract since early 2001. This gives me the flexibility to chose which phones I want, and to come and go as I please. I will gladly pay more for a handset so that I dont need to be locked into a contract (with ETL fees of $200+, and term required monthly payments!), however most Americans dont feel this way.
--
If history teaches us anything, it teaches that simple-minded appeasement or wishful thinking about our adversaries is folly.
-Ronald Reagan-
|
|
kyler13
Is your fiber grounded?
join:2006-12-12
Arnold, MD
1 edit | Yes, but that's mostly because Americans don't understand it. I've said all along that I won't upgrade my phone on US networks unless it's free. If I don't have the freedom to take my hardware somewhere else, I won't pay for it, period. I'd pay a $5 monthly fee for two years to rent it (like my cable box) but I'm not even willing to pay $200 for a partially subsidized phone that won't cut the mustard in 2 years, repeat cycle until I've spent more than I would on an unlocked phone I'm happy keeping. Unlocked phones are expensive and give you the freedom to choose your network. Locked phones that bind you to the network should be cheap or free, but when the newest phones hit the market, they are pretty damn expensive. |
|
S_engineer
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL
·Comcast
| reply to pnh102
Re: Question For Verizon Customers
said by pnh102 :said by Matt :You would have to flash it with the Verizon BREW software. It may work for a PDA or Blackberry, but it's doubtful it would work for a normal handset without a lot of work. Hmm. Sounds like a nice way to make a doorstop if one is not careful. doorstop huh...maybe thats what ill use my vista laptop for! |
|
pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| said by S_engineer :doorstop huh...maybe thats what ill use my vista laptop for! Come on. Surely you can upgrade Vista to XP.
--
"At the moment of conception." |
|
pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | reply to patcat88
Yikes.
I'll take that as a "no."
--
"At the moment of conception." |
|
wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
·Verizon FIOS
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·RoadRunner Cable
·BroadVoice
| reply to kyler13
Re: GSM the already open network
You raise a good point. My issue with buying a subsidized phone is that the newest, "coolest" ones are always a few hundred dollars. Look at it another way. A $200, subsidized phone requires (for arguments sake) a $80 per month plan for the next 2 years. On top of that, if you decide you want to change providers or (gasp!) get a new phone they hit you with a $200 ETL fee or make you extend your contract another two years! The alternative is purchasing that same phone (unlocked) for $400. This works especially well if you are out of contract with your provider, as then YOU call the shots. If you are unhappy with your service, you simply call and tell them "I am out of contract so I am switching to provider X". The retention reps will then scramble to do anything to keep you, including giving you a better plan while letting you stay month to month. Assuming you can get over the initial sticker shock of an unlocked phone, its hard to argue the benefits of a subsidized handset.
--
If history teaches us anything, it teaches that simple-minded appeasement or wishful thinking about our adversaries is folly.
-Ronald Reagan-
|
|
cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
| reply to patcat88
Re: Question For Verizon Customers
said by patcat88 :VZW says they do not have network initiated GPS reading, and phones aren't required to respond to a network initiated GPS reading (so no silently tracking your GPS coords)). Says the company that allows TLAs to snoop your phone conversations without warrants. Forgive me if I don't believe that they have this capability. |
|
KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | reply to wifi4milez
Re: GSM the already open network
Well, if we had open phones, you could buy all kinds of gee-whiz and wow phones from Asia and China, and no, they wouldn't be that expensive.
Not to mention you could use old phones as cheap backups, lenders, etc etc |
|
patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY | reply to cdru
Re: Question For Verizon Customers
You can read the standards yourself. Although if your a conspiracy theorist, you can't guarantee there is a backdoor in the Qualcomm chip. A secret/reserved code that is sent to the chip and it responds. |
|
wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
·Verizon FIOS
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·RoadRunner Cable
·BroadVoice
| reply to KrK
Re: GSM the already open network
said by KrK :Well, if we had open phones, you could buy all kinds of gee-whiz and wow phones from Asia and China, and no, they wouldn't be that expensive. I dont think the two are related. Almost all phones in Europe and Asia are unlocked, yet the prices have been $400 to $1000 for years. People have the misconception that consumers in the US dont have options for open (unlocked) phones, and thats just not true. There are myriad online and "brick and mortar" stores that sell them, all you need to do is ask. While people on CDMA networks are certainly more limited, you can still purchase phones without contracts to give yourself leverage with the provider.
--
If history teaches us anything, it teaches that simple-minded appeasement or wishful thinking about our adversaries is folly.
-Ronald Reagan-
|
|
