viperlmw
Premium
join:2005-01-25
 ·Qwest.net
1 edit | Carrot and stick
Commercial entities always use carrot and stick to get what they want. It's what they do.
However, I don't believe that bandwidth providers are intimating a bandwidth armageddon. Most of the talk you hear is intended for investors. When they talk about 'enhanced services' (that's the phrase they use, here it's called 'tiered service'), I think that mostly it's just about innovation, trying to envision what service a customer may want and figuring out how to provide that service, and letting investors know that they are actually working. As much as people here love to hate these providers, you wouldn't be reading this now without them.
BTW, I never considered Cisco an infrastructure lobbyist. Interesting take. |
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karlmarx
join:2006-09-18
iraq
·Fairpoint Communic..
| they lie? and we're suprised because?
Of course the megacorps are going to lie about it. For them, the ONLY thing that matters is to provide the least amount of service, at the highest price they can charge. Look at comcast, the so called 'BMW' of internet access. Comcast is a rip-off by any measure. Compare the 65.00 comcraptic access charges vs the 29.00 100mb full duplex charges overseas. Comcast rapes the customer BECAUSE THEY CAN. A corporation is not a living, breathing person. A corporation is a mindless construct of pure evil, whose sole purpose is to take from the poor, and give to the rich. It's high time we stop listening to the lies and half-truths these bastards keep crying, and FORCE them to work for the COMMON GOOD. That's what the FCC's original mandate was, but it's been corrupted by corporate greed and malfeasance
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Stick it to the MAN. Support your local torrent sites. Proudly providing 100mb of upstream for all your TV, Movie, and MP3 needs. |
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raye
Premium
join:2000-08-14
Orange, CA
| Businesses usually drive infrstructure improvements
Whether you like it or not, businesses that pay thousands of dollars a month for multiple pipes to multiple IP backbones drive the investment in infrastructure, not home users and their (very) asymmetric cable or DSL connections at $40/month. Until more folks push the limits of their home connections (which the vast majority do not) and/or demand more symmetric (better upload) connections then I do not not see any bandwidth shortages on the horizon. There is still unused fiber that is yet to be lit here in the US AFAIK.
From what happened late last year with the earthquake and loss of connectivity in Asia, it is the Asia to US (and rest of world) where there appears to be a bandwidth shortage. |
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halfband
Premium
join:2002-06-01
Huntsville, AL
| reply to karlmarx
Re: they lie? and we're suprised because?
said by karlmarx  :Comcast is a rip-off by any measure. Compare the 65.00 comcraptic access charges vs the 29.00 100mb full duplex charges overseas. I think you will find the $29 for 100mb systems are subsidised. Infrastructure is not free, somebody paid for or invested money to put it up.
said by karlmarx :Comcast rapes the customer BECAUSE THEY CAN. A corporation is not a living, breathing person. A corporation is a mindless construct of pure evil, whose sole purpose is to take from the poor, and give to the rich. You give the corporations too much credit. They are generally truly mindless single purpose entities. But they are not inherently evil, they just act in an evil manner in a competitive environment. They are not out to take from the poor and give to the rich, they would willingly take from the rich an poor alike. Of course if the poor owned the corporation, they would become the rich through the profits of the corporation. In the US you are supposed to be able to get your slice of the pie by buying your part of the corporations in the stock market.
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Registered Bandwidth Offender #40812 |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·Comcast
1 edit | reply to karlmarx
said by karlmarx : A corporation is a mindless construct of pure evil, whose sole purpose is to take from the poor, and give to the rich. LOL. You should learn some new Marxist propaganda. 
The karlmarx top ten tunes
Your usual sayings are tiresome and old fashioned quotes from 100 yrs ago.
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My BLOG
My Web Page |
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richardpor
Fur it up
join:2003-04-19
Portland, OR
| Wait one
1. Net Neutrality law has not passed but; do not court the chickens before they hatch.
2. IF Net Neutrality law does pass it would open a new business opportunities for the telecoms. Any regulation the internet would crimp and investment on the internet. Goggle will clog the internet with videos. Instead of the internet new infrastructure will be sold to business as dedicated clutter free connection. If anything Net Neutrality would smother the internet as Goggle will find out you can’t force private business to give you bandwidth to grow you business for free* and, private corporations will turn to faster and clutter free private dedicated connections.
* I know what some of you all are going to say, but “Me and Goggle has all ready paid for the pipes”. This is true but only in part. You do not pay for the backbone but to move data on the pipes at a current bandwidth service, you did not pay for any improved and faster service. Like many companies you do not have a right to get a premium service for free. For example you can not expect to buy a hamburger and expect to get prime rib or buy a coach ticket and expect to get first class seat and service. |
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vpoko
Premium
join:2003-07-03
Jamaica Plain, MA
| reply to karlmarx
Re: they lie? and we're suprised because?
said by karlmarx :Of course the megacorps are going to lie about it. For them, the ONLY thing that matters is to provide the least amount of service, at the highest price they can charge. Look at comcast, the so called 'BMW' of internet access. Comcast is a rip-off by any measure. Compare the 65.00 comcraptic access charges vs the 29.00 100mb full duplex charges overseas. Comcast rapes the customer BECAUSE THEY CAN. A corporation is not a living, breathing person. A corporation is a mindless construct of pure evil, whose sole purpose is to take from the poor, and give to the rich. It's high time we stop listening to the lies and half-truths these bastards keep crying, and FORCE them to work for the COMMON GOOD. That's what the FCC's original mandate was, but it's been corrupted by corporate greed and malfeasance If there were NO corporations, there would be NO broadband. It's not corporations that are evil to you, it's the whole notion of business. After all, a rich person can go into business and make themselves richer without needing to incorporate. |
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bamabrad
join:2006-01-27
Port Orange, FL
| Numbers = money
The more numbers (customers), the more money-which it is all about. Let the market decide. If another corp decides to compete (faster speeds,better content,lower prices,better services, etc.), then some type of safe guard should be in place to prevent a monopoly giant from squashing them. |
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major marco
Res Firma Mitescere Nescit
Premium
join:2003-02-13
Stepford, CA
clubs:
| reply to richardpor
Re: Wait one
said by richardpor : Goggle will clog the internet with videos. Instead of the internet new infrastructure will be sold to business as dedicated clutter free connection. Ok, Ted. And did you only just receive your Internet today when your staff sent your Internet on Friday? The Internet is not a dump truck. It's a series of tubes, dammit! And Goggle is clogging it!
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The Toll
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Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA
| reply to richardpor
said by richardpor :Any regulation the internet would crimp and investment on the internet. Goggle will clog the internet with videos. As far as I know, there's no way for Google to "clog the Internet with videos." This would assume that they are purposefully broadcasting tons of video files all over the Internet whether people wanted them or not. The reality is that Google might make tons of videos available, but it is the users who decide which videos (if any) actually traverse the Internet.
said by richardpor :I know what some of you all are going to say, but “Me and Goggle has all ready paid for the pipes”. This is true but only in part. You do not pay for the backbone but to move data on the pipes at a current bandwidth service, you did not pay for any improved and faster service. Like many companies you do not have a right to get a premium service for free. For example you can not expect to buy a hamburger and expect to get prime rib or buy a coach ticket and expect to get first class seat and service. Actually, "Me and Google" will pay for all of the bandwidth costs including any improved and faster service. Let's say Google wants to make tons of videos available, they'll pay their ISP for the bandwidth needed. That ISP buys their bandwidth from an upstream provider and so on to the top of the chain. (The "top of the chain" companies have peering arrangements as their traffic tends to even out.)
On the user end, the user pays their ISP for some bandwidth. Their ISP pays an upstream provider and so on up the chain again.
Now, if an ISP sees that their network is slowing down and/or they want to get a competitive advantage, they'll upgrade their network. Users who want this upgraded network (with the faster speeds) will likely pay more. (If they don't pay more, the upgrade is factored into normal costs of doing business just like an advertising budget.) Web companies who want faster speeds will also pay more. Sure, an infrastructure investment might not break even and become profitable overnight, but if/when it does it will be because the users paid for it. |
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bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| reply to TKJunkMail
Re: they lie? and we're suprised because?
If you change the cloths and modernize the implements and tools the people are each carrying, it can likely be shown that such a structure exists...
You can call it propaganda all you want. The structure is aptly constructed, albeit somewhat exaggerated, unless you can point out an error someplace in there.
And this comes from some one who isn't a Marxist.
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Prove it... |
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bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| reply to richardpor
Re: Wait one
First off, you might look at returning to grammar school and try to relearn that whole reading and writing thing. Your grammar is awful and takes a decode ring to decipher.
said by [user-richardpor :
]IF Net Neutrality law does pass it would open a new business opportunities for the telecoms. Any regulation the internet would crimp and investment on the internet. Everyone says that, but no one can prove that. Additionally, net neutrality regulation would protection the ability of new comers to the internet to create new services and make investments. Without it, no one would be able to compete after having paid their monthly protection bribe to the ATT mafia for packet protection.
Goggle will clog the internet with videos. And if "Goggle" doesn't do it, the Telcos are going to do it. Sorry, believing the telco line that Google is going to kill the internet is foolish.
If anything Net Neutrality would smother the internet as Goggle will find out you can’t force private business to give you bandwidth to grow you business for free* and, private corporations will turn to faster and clutter free private dedicated connections. Actually, Net Neutrality wouldn't do any of that. Thanks for playing. Additionally, "Goggle" doesn't get any "force private business" to do anything... So, thanks for playing, please come back again.
said by richardpor :I know what some of you all are going to say, but “Me and Goggle has all ready paid for the pipes”. This is true but only in part. You do not pay for the backbone but to move data on the pipes at a current bandwidth service, you did not pay for any improved and faster service. Like many companies you do not have a right to get a premium service for free. For example you can not expect to buy a hamburger and expect to get prime rib or buy a coach ticket and expect to get first class seat and service. Certainly shows how little you know about this issue. Actually Google DOES pay for premium level service from backbone providers. The costs of that level of service are certainly enough for those providers to invest in infrastructure upgrades.
I recommend you brush on this subject because you clearly have a lot to learn about the whole NN debate, as do most of the people who post about it.
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Prove it... |
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bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| reply to halfband
Re: they lie? and we're suprised because?
said by halfband :Of course if the poor owned the corporation, they would become the rich through the profits of the corporation. In the US you are supposed to be able to get your slice of the pie by buying your part of the corporations in the stock market. Yeah, but I think they've got things like health care, eating their next meal and such on their mind first, so investing in the stock market isn't exactly a luxury for most for most of them. Like the old saying goes...
"It takes money, to make money."
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Prove it... |
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Nuts
join:2006-04-27
Forest, OH | reply to vpoko
they can also end up totally broke also.  |
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halfband
Premium
join:2002-06-01
Huntsville, AL
| reply to bmn
said by bmn :"It takes money, to make money." Absolutely true. The trick of course is to borrow someone elses money to do it. That is where the investors come in. --
Registered Bandwidth Offender #40812 |
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xsiddalx
join:2005-03-11
Chicago, IL
·AT&T Yahoo
| reply to vpoko
Why do you believe Corporations are necessary for broadband?
As for the good/evil debate...it is debatable and not really related to broadband...
If there were NO corporations, there would be NO broadband. It's not corporations that are evil to you, it's the whole notion of business. After all, a rich person can go into business and make themselves richer without needing to incorporate.
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jtel
join:2005-06-28
Bristol, RI | reply to bmn
Re: Wait one
I would think that if Google has the fiber and the traffic that they are peering not paying. |
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vpoko
Premium
join:2003-07-03
Jamaica Plain, MA
| reply to xsiddalx
Re: they lie? and we're suprised because?
said by xsiddalx :Why do you believe Corporations are necessary for broadband? Corporations exist so that lots of people can pool their resources into a business entity. Can you imagine a single person, or even a small partnership, being able to raise capital to build infrastructure? I'll be the first to say that there are lots of imperfections and abuses in our corporate system that need to be addressed, but saying we're anti-corporate while using corporations' services is like a 4-year old saying they're anti-parents. |
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bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| reply to jtel
Re: Wait one
said by jtel :I would think that if Google has the fiber and the traffic that they are peering not paying. Arguable. If they aren't paying for ANY bandwidth, than they would classify as a Tier 1 network, which they are not. I can guarantee you that Google is paying for bandwidth at some points in their network. The fibre they invested in was mostly for invest datacenter traffic.
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Prove it... |
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bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| reply to halfband
Re: they lie? and we're suprised because?
said by halfband :said by bmn :"It takes money, to make money." Absolutely true. The trick of course is to borrow someone elses money to do it. That is where the investors come in. Vicious circle...  Just got to remember, how many low income people have credit ratings that give them oppurtunity to get loans for investments, etc. ?
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Prove it... |
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