GlenQuagmire
Giggidy Giggidy Giggidy Goo
Premium
join:2004-02-16
Grand Rapids, MI | Will Never happen in the US
They would never do that here is the US. Companies like Comcast are above that.  |
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bgraham
join:2001-03-15
Smithtown, NY
 ·Verizon FIOS
2 edits | Threat to the internet?
Doesn't this type of thing threaten the very existence of the internet.
If this attitude was allowed to continue, the internet becomes just like tv. "You can anly watch what we want you to watch" or "you can only use your internet for what we want you to".
Meatwad, I can absolutely see soon that ISP's will be messing with VOIP packets to and from a competitor. That way the poor customers will have to pay more for VIOP from their own ISP's. |
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slashman
Don't do it . ..
Premium
join:2003-10-01
Batavia, IL | Maybe Ebay should buy this company
and shelve the technology to protect their $4B investment in Skype. |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·Comcast
| reply to bgraham
Re: Threat to the internet?
said by bgraham  :Doesn't this type of thing threaten the very existence of the internet. If this attitude was allowed to continue, the internet becomes just like tv. "You can anly watch what we want you to watch" or "you can only use your internet for what we want you to". The internet and the providing ISP's aren't a public utility like the phone company. They can do what they want unless laws are passed to rule otherwise.
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GlenQuagmire
Giggidy Giggidy Giggidy Goo
Premium
join:2004-02-16
Grand Rapids, MI | What about the common carrier status. |
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robscullion
Premium
join:2001-12-07
Philadelphia, PA
 ·Speakeasy
| reply to GlenQuagmire
Re: Will Never happen in the US
I've been asking around about this recently, but can't find a lot of answers about regulations. The note above seems to imply that blocking would be illegal, but this article (»www.internetnews.com/infra/artic···/3485271) seems to say that it's not illegal for Comcast or any other cable modem ISP.
It'd be interesting to see whether CC thinks they could make more money by shutting off Vonage and pushing their own VoIP. VoIP is still ramping up to critical mass, so if they did it now and provided their own VoIP, it seems like they'd come out ahead in the end. Some Vonage customers would move to DSL as a protest, but in the long run they'd be locking a whole segment of the user base into yet another service. Seems like a no brainer.
I agree that such blocking should be illegal, but I can't seem to find a definitive statement of that fact. Anybody know for sure? |
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PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR | Not illegal in U.S.
Read the article. SInce they are now classified as "information services", MSO's and DSL SP's may now do this in the U.S., if they wish. Only the risk of bad PR and competitive pressure will prevent them from doing so. |
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rizwan602
join:2004-03-20
Gilbert, AZ
·Cox HSI
| the internet
Commerce has caused the internet to become $#!t. People's self interests have just hurt things very badly. I remember a time, not so long ago, I could get online, read news, email and maybe buy something without popped up, scanned, littered with web site ads.
And now attacking working infrastructures in the interest of money... its just depressing.
Its still works but not sure for how long..?! |
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druber
join:2000-04-11
Marlborough, MA | reply to PDXPLT
Re: Not illegal in U.S.
You're right, but I think if any ISP(s) start doing this in a signficant way, Congress will get involved quickly. |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| reply to PDXPLT
said by PDXPLT :SInce they are now classified as "information services", MSO's and DSL SP's may now do this in the U.S., if they wish. No, they cannot. The FCC recently busted an ISP for blocking Vonage.
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Rove / Rumsfeld 2008! |
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA
1 edit | They should be fined...
Any incumbant who does it should be fined (which has happened »www.internetnews.com/xSP/article.php/3487466 ). It is illegal to use monopoly position to influence competition.
This just shows the clear need for muni deployment. Neutral ground in which any provider can contract to deliver services. That won't happen when companies like Verizon take billions in taxpayer dollars for deployment but don't have to follow any rules.
If they want the money, the franchises, the easements...they should have to follow basic rules. They don't get free land for their money tree.
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WAR HAS NEVER SOLVED ANYTHING, except ending slavery, facism, communism, Nazism.... |
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA
| reply to TKJunkMail
Re: Threat to the internet?
Antitrust laws don't require the company to be a utility. If they are abusing their market position (which telcos certainly have local monopolistic market position) to kill competition; that's illegal, no matter what sector of business they're in.
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WAR HAS NEVER SOLVED ANYTHING, except ending slavery, facism, communism, Nazism.... |
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phantom6294
join:2002-02-27
Abingdon, MD
·Comcast
| Randomness would be the key...
If ISPs plan on doing something that does in some way affect external VoIP... it is going to have to be random. Flat out blocking an external VoIP brings too much publicity. Randomness makes it harder to "prove" an ISP is actually doing something. So... you pick up the phone and make a call... it's kinda laggy, etc. You hang up, the next call is fine. Every X calls, the call cuts out at some point in the middle of the call which is also randomly determined.
The more random it is... the more frustrated the user will be but would be clueless to their ISP actively sabotaging their VoIP packets and the more likely they are to discontinue the external VoIP server. |
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JSRoman
Premium
join:2005-03-10
Callahan, FL
| The Sky is Falling,the Sky is Falling!
This is not going to happen in the US, might happen in countries like Costa Rica and Mexico where you have practically government provided phone service. If any big carrier like Verizon,TW,SBC or Comcast would do something like this Congress would be all over it. Customers would protest with their dollars and just switch providers. The bad press would be horrendous. Granted there is no law saying you can't do that but Vonage has shown that if you can prove that someone is blocking your service the FCC will show that carrier that back of the hand in a heartbeat. Not worth the marketing nightmare that this would bring on any company foolish enough to block voip service.
That being said still think stand alone voip providers will not be around in 3-5 years. My reasoning, none have enough financial footing to withstand upcoming battles with RBOCs and cable companies. |
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Noah Vail
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to robscullion
I JUST KNOW.....
........ this will never happen in the US
Big Media block content to further their own agenda?
PShaw!
This is AMERICA after all!
I mean, it's not like Russia where a select group of elitists decide what we get (and don't get) from our media and content providers.
Surely here our media would never carefully craft our content to make it appear that we were getting what we are promised when in fact what is delivered is highly selective.
Geeezee-Louisie. You guys are SO paranoid.
Lighten up already.
NV
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Abortion: It's really a Republican plot to thin the liberal herd! |
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Vig
Thread-safe since 1997
Premium
join:2004-03-23
San Diego, CA | pay up, youse guys
Dis is a nice VoIP you gots here. Be a shame if anything happened to it. Maybe youse should buy our insurance.
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Visit the land of the never-setting sun |
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phaqu
join:2005-05-26
Marietta, GA | We'd hate for you to have a little....."accident" |
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jpark
join:2005-02-05
Jackson, TN
| reply to JSRoman
Re: The Sky is Falling,the Sky is Falling!
ISPs routinely block services (other than VoIP) and the FCC doesn't do anything about it.
Port 25 blocking is a case in point. Most ISPs now block port 25 in an attempt to require you to use their mail servers. Never mind that you paid for internet access and they are selling partial internet access. If you purchase email services from someone other than your ISP, the ISP can block that service with impunity.
VoIP is not really any different.
ISPs should be prohibited from such practices, but they are big enough to get the laws they want. |
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phantom6294
join:2002-02-27
Abingdon, MD
·Comcast
| I think your characterization of port 25 blocking is a bit skewed. Port 25 blocking is the easiest and perhaps most effective means to reduce spam coming out of an ISP's network. Without access to port 25 an infected drone computer cannot act as an SMTP relay nor can an infected drone computer directly connect to external SMTP servers attempting to deliver mail. This is a perfectly valid reason for blocking port 25. They aren't blocking port 25 because they fear customers buying emails services outside their network or to somehow bolster their own email services. If you want port 25, then get a commercial ISP. The overwhelming majority of people who have an ISP that blocks port 25 don't have any need to use port 25. |
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