Spyder
join:2003-03-10
Thornhill, ON
clubs:   | !!!
They're terrorists, plotting a massive DOS attack! Block those websites, biatch, before Telus customers become privy to their actions! |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·Comcast
4 edits |  ISP's can filter anything they want
ISP's can filter anything they want and if you don't like it - switch providers. Why should an ISP provide services to those(unions) that are working against it. Just some more liberal claptrap that now thinks a business is obligated to assist those seeking it harm.
And why continue beating this subject to death? It was already discussed ad nauseum in this only days ago msg thread: »/forum/news,65819
My Web Page
Join Red Room Forum |
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dardin
join:2002-11-19
Tucson, AZ | They are not providing service to anyone. So why do you state they are providing service to the Union?
They are not hosting these Union websites, other hosts are. |
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HockeyDude
Born To Run
join:2003-01-22
Brooklyn, NY | reply to TKJunkMail
What if its in a place where there are no alternative service providers? So ISPs should be allowed to have a monopoly and do anything they want? |
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King75
King Of All And Nothing
Premium
join:2004-07-31
Stevensville, MD
clubs: | reply to TKJunkMail
I thought Unions were usually conservative mainly being white male middle class people as such who tend to be conservative they want better pay and lower taxes. This is a conservative view point isn't it? |
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G_Poobah
join:2004-01-17
Schenectady, NY
| reply to TKJunkMail
*sigh*
If they are filtering, then they are NOT AN ISP. Period.
ISP = "Internet Service Provider". By defition, if you are an internet service provider, you give me an IP address, and I can go where I want. If you filter sites, then you are a Limited Filtered Web Access Provider.
What Telus is doing is showing the world they are NOT AN ISP. That means they have ZERO legal protection from someone suing them for copyright infringement, hacking, identity theft, etc. Granted, they can do the filtering (probably a marketing doofuses idea), but by showing the world they CAN and WILL block a site, what's to stop ANYONE from suing them to block any other site. Slippery slope indeed.
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Grand Poobah |
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badisp
@sprintbbd.net
| Ya, I agree.
Even if I did not care about the Union or even like the Union at all. If I was a customer I would be thinking to myself, "what site are they going to block next or in the future"?
What right does a ISP have to deceide what website it is ok or not ok for me to view?
Very bad move.... |
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Krispy
Premium,VIP
join:2001-12-11
the stix
| Huh?
According to DNS and registrar look-ups I can't even see that teluscabs.ca or telussluts.ca even exist or are registered to anyone (internic.ca tells me I can buy those domains today) so unless I'm severely under-caffeinated and doing something wrong I wonder how much of this article is valid at all.
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you can lead a horse to the water but you cannot make him drink...you can put a man through school but you cannot make him think --ben harper |
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Krispy
Premium,VIP
join:2001-12-11
the stix
| I see now that the article has a typo throughout the article for the one domain, it should be telusscabs.ca, note the double s. Another registry search for telussluts.ca and telusluts.ca turned up nothing...great proofing on the article!
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you can lead a horse to the water but you cannot make him drink...you can put a man through school but you cannot make him think --ben harper |
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Combat Chuck
Too Many Cannibals
Premium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA
| reply to King75
Re: ISP's can filter anything they want
said by King75  :I thought Unions were usually conservative mainly being white male middle class people as such who tend to be conservative they want better pay and lower taxes. This is a conservative view point isn't it? Well that's what they tell their members then they turn around and give money to the most socialist political candidate they can find, while dropping hints that the company is lying about their profits.
Unfortunately for them their members are starting to wake up and jump ship...especially when they realize that they don't have to belong to a giant union to participate in collective bargaining.
Hopefully the trend continues and something new rises from the ashes, a "Union" whose purpose is to help their members get the best possible wages within reason; excising their current objectives of recruiting members to fill the coffers (by making management and non-union shops the enemy) and getting certain people elected to office.
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Misfits lost in the dryer, take heart
Maybe there's a place up in sock heaven. |
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WhyADuck
Premium
join:2003-03-05
| reply to G_Poobah
Finally someone gets it! The question is, do ISP's want to be a "common carrier", which basically passes along the data and makes not attempt to inspect or filter it, or do they want to hold themselves out as being able and willing to block any site at will? If the latter, then they should not be surprised if organizations like the RIAA and the MPAA demand that they start blocking access to certain sites. Also, given Canada's "hate speech" laws, I would not be at all surprised if the government presents its own list of sites it wants banned. Pretty soon Canadians (at least those in Telus territory) will have to find proxies in other countries if they want to be able to surf the entire Web.
It seems to me like Telus is opening themselves up to considerable legal difficulties with their actions. That's not to mention the increased problems they are likely to have with their union because of this - after all, by this action they are showing that they do not believe in fair play, and such actions are likely to further any spirit of mistrust between the parties. |
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Orwell1984
@fdn.com
 from:
John Galt
| reply to TKJunkMail
So when your paper boy delivers your morning news with articles he doesn't like cut out that's ok to? |
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Krispy
Premium,VIP
join:2001-12-11
the stix
| said by Orwell1984:
So when your paper boy delivers your morning news with articles he doesn't like cut out that's ok to?
Just to play devil's advocate...what about if the newspaper decides not to print the article in the first place (which I'm sure happens all the time)?
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you can lead a horse to the water but you cannot make him drink...you can put a man through school but you cannot make him think --ben harper |
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
 ·Speakeasy
| reply to TKJunkMail
said by TKJunkMail :ISP's can filter anything they want and if you don't like it - switch providers. Why should an ISP provide services to those(unions) that are working against it. Just some more liberal claptrap that now thinks a business is obligated to assist those seeking it harm. So, what you're saying is, businesses that are ostensibly in the business of providing information flow should be allowed to determine what their customers are allowed to see and hear on any given topic?
By way of example, what you're saying is, if Time/Warner was in the middle of a questionable dispute with a business partner, that any news outlets they controlled should be allowed to simply omit coverage, or they should be able to edit the news coverage of the broadcasters they carry on their cable systems (CNN, MSNBC, local outlets, etc.)?
At least think through the potential consequences of the garbage you spout.
-tom
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"Some people have morals, standards and ideals about quality, but I'm an American: I couldn't care less." --Tony Pierce (paraphrased) |
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Orwell1984
@fdn.com | reply to Krispy
That would be equivalent to the website owners not putting info on the site.Telus might own the network they do not however own the packets being transmitted across it. |
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rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO
| I asked this before ...
but I didn't get responses that addressed my question. So -- I'll try to be short and ask it again...
Is it legal for the electric, water, sewer or phone companies to terminate service to a business that is in competition or in some conflict with them? (Granted, it's hard to be in competition with the first three but...)
I don't think we yet consider "Internet" access as a utility but ...
I'd also like to comment that if we don't yet consider it a utility, then I don't want any USF slush-fund fees going to deliver it to rural or impoverished areas. If it's not a utility, it's must be an "optional" part of society and we shouldn't have to make sure the haves fund the have nots. |
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Titus Pullo
I came, I saw, I slept
join:2004-06-26
·Embarq
| reply to Combat Chuck
Re: ISP's can filter anything they want
It's painfully obvious that you know nothing about the history of the middle class and the role of unions to that end. I find your line re "wages within reason" interesting; reasonable wages relative to what? Do you have a metric for reasonable? Part of the reason unions have fallen from public favor is the unrelenting attack from those who oppose them. Ask yourself why any business, with plentiful labor pools and high profits, would fight to kill unions?
But it's of no matter; the health care crisis in our country makes unions a non issue. Toyota just moved potential southern-state American operations to Canada for two reasons: they couldn't afford the extensive training that bubba required (part of which is due to their no-union history having created scads of untrained and untrainable workers), and health care is provided in Canada. Both are a direct result of the very mindset that wishes unions dead: Bottom-liners and top 1%'ers that want a nation of lower class consumers rather than an educated middle class -- people like that are contrary to profits, aren't worker-droids, and know the history of worker exploitation in this country.
You're simply creating, selling, and marketing the very rope that will hang you by killing unions, denying there's a health care problem, and cutting education.
Good luck.
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"The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppose." -- Frederick Douglass |
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bored2tears
@advancedtool.com
| reply to rradina
Re: I asked this before ...
As a company and network owner I'm under no obligation to allow traffic to or from any given place on the internet.
I block connections from IP addresses that I feel are going to send me spam. I block connections from addresses that I have reason to believe are compromised. I block connections from many sub-nets just because they've been problems to me in the past.
I also block connections from my network TO those IP addresses and sub-nets. This is for the protection of both my network and my network's users.
It is well within my rights (and responsibility) to protect my network from harm, direct and implied. Telus is doing nothing wrong if that's the case. If those websites are plotting a DOS attack on their network or their infrastructure (phones and call centers apply here) then they are well within their rights to limit or eliminate communications to and from their network based on that. I would not expect them to do otherwise. I would think of them contemptuously if they didn't.
Beyond that the union has been offered more money and better terms. They no longer have to swing hammers etc so they can be comm people like they wanted. Telus has even offered to retrain people currently paid to swing hammers.
Uhh.. DUH?!? Get back to work for gods sake. |
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KUppiano
Karl Uppiano
join:2003-02-02
Ferndale, WA
| reply to nixen
Re: ISP's can filter anything they want
The mainstream media filters and contrives news all the time. Only the technology has changed. I used to work at a local radio station where the news director would simply refuse to post stories he did not agree with. He didn't even realize he was doing it.
Furthermore, if it is true that a massive DDOS is in the works, I would take preventative measures. |
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ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Bridgeport, WV
clubs:
 ·VOIPo
| reply to bored2tears
Re: I asked this before ...
So you are trying to say that if you get an internet conection through one ISP, it is ok for them to block access to any competitors web site or any content they don't want you to see.
So if they are an ISP that is oriented to one political party belief, and they happen to be your only choice of provider, and they block all web sites and content to the opposing party, then it is ok??
Dude, you need to get a serious grip then..
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FWD#: 223611 |
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