navalpatel
join:2003-07-28
Lubbock, TX
| PFT
There are always going to be instances where people willingly overlook any important instuctions. That does not give the state the right to sue each time. I am not sure how Vonage presents their material on setting up 911 service, but I bet it would be clear enough so that the average user would set it up.
I think this will lead the way to VoIP/e911 reform and FCC regulation of the VoIP industry. |
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Murray3
join:2001-03-06
Texas | I think it's a bit harsh on Vonage
I think Vonage makes it pretty clear myself.
Also, the fact that Vonage have stated they would work with the Texas AG recommendations/suggestions of possible improvements also tells me Vonage are being serious about it. |
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DaveNJ
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
 ·Comcast
·Patriot Media
| force the customer to give info
When you sign up for Vonage they should make the customer give them there 911 local number, and have it mapped to 911. So if someone dials that number they get there local police. It should be part of the signup process. I am totally on vonages side on this. |
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Cod
join:2000-07-05
Greensboro, NC
| 911
It is perfectly clear, if you are literate, that you must manually subscribe to 911 with Vonage. I signed up 3 months ago and saw huge bold text while setting up my account to manually go in to activate my 911 service (which works great by the way with a test call made my me). |
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA
3 edits | I'm no Vonage fan...
and their 9-1-1 service is a complete joke...but when I signed up the 9-1-1 notice that you have to actively activate the service by providing your address during a sign up process is ALL OVER THE PLACE. It's there on their webpage where they discuss their 9-1-1 offering...it's a big warning you have to accept before you're allowed to setup, and it's there again on the portal afterward.
It's one thing to say you can't call a service 9-1-1 when it dials the janitor's closet of the local PD but to say Vonage doesn't give you notice that you have to activate 9-1-1 after subscribing is a complete lie.
»www.vonage.com/features.php?feature=911
What part of the BOLD FACED TYPE SAYING CLEARLY "You Must Tell Us the Physical Location of Your Vonage Line for 911 Dialing to Function." do these dumbasses not understand. In fact on this page they detail ALL of the problems with their 9-1-1 service and these same disclosures appear during signup which you have to agree you have read and understand...and it's not buried in some TOS/AUP and are available after signup.
I guess there is no crime in Texas as the AG has time to waste on this.
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Don't get it, demand it! The Anime Network www.theanimenetwork.com |
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Cod
join:2000-07-05
Greensboro, NC | how is their 911 service a joke? I pick up my phone, dial 9 1 1 and I'm connected to my town response center....Maybe I am in the minority, but works flawlessly for me. |
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA
3 edits | Before I cancelled, mine called the front office of the local Sheriff's office (not even the county headquarters or anything)...problem was, it was an electronic auto attendant which told you "if you're having an emergency or are witnessing a crime in progress hang up and dial 9-1-1"...otherwise you are left on hold. And if it's after business hours you get that message to call 9-1-1 or you have the choice of leaving a voicemail with various departments there.
I think to call that 9-1-1 is a joke. Personally I think there ought to be federal standards of what a service has to contain before you can call it 9-1-1...and Vonage doesn't cut the mustard.
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Don't get it, demand it! The Anime Network www.theanimenetwork.com |
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BillRoland
Premium
join:2001-01-21
Ocala, FL
clubs:
·Cox HSI
1 edit | Wording is troubling
"Stop. You must dial 911 from another telephone. 911 is not available from this telephone line. No emergency personnel will be dispatched."
There is a big problem with that when someone has disconnected the house from the telco's NIU and hooked it up to the ATA, so that ALL phones in the house are now Vonage lines. They could be in trouble by not making it clear enough that you need a cell phone or run to a POTS enabled neighbors house. That wording could lead people to go to another room and try again, and again. But then again in the event a home invasion or murder attempt, who could just run over to your neighbors and call 911? I think the Texas AG is trying for some PR out of this, but they may get a little more traction than some are thinking.
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"Don't steal. The government hates competition." |
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911Advocate
@nortelnetworks.com
| reply to navalpatel
Re: PFT
I am not going to get into the battle of if Vonage notified you or not. Clearly their web page makes the required legal statements.
One point that is being lost is E911 and 911 and HOW a call is routed. The E911 system is a telco based 'cloud'. You enter in the cloud by dialing 911 from your phone, your caller ID is looked at, and an intelligent routing decisions made to terminate your call at the proper PSAP.
Right now, Vonage and other VoIP carriers DO NOT have access to that E911 'cloud'. What they are forced to do is call forward your call to the public non-emergency number at the local police station.
This may not be your E911 PSAP, your call is not treated as a 911 call, nor does the PSAP dispatcher get the E911 screen pops with location information that they would get with a REAL 911 call.
So there are several issues here, and 911 registration is only PART of the problem. Even if you follow all of the VoIP providers rules, you are most likely not getting TRUE E911 service.
Some carrier have made arrangements to connect to certain E911 infrastructures in certain states. But few if any, can offer the same service nation wide.
Just wanted to set a few facts straight about how E911 actually works. I'll stay out of the political arena on who said what and when. |
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LawmanGrant
join:2001-07-21
Spring Hill, TN
| vonage customer
I have been a Vonage customer for 2 months.....And I can say, it was clearly explained to me that I had to manually activate the 9-1-1 service.
So, for someone to say they didn't know they had to, that is a joke.
On the topic of being BAD 9-1-1 service, Vonage is doing the best they can. My understanding of this issue (and this comes from being a cop in my town and asking the phone company people this question) is that the Bells (Bellsouth where I am at) will not let Vonage dial into and have access to the true 911 lines. So, why are we not asking the Bells for any help on this issue?
-Chris |
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Captain Obvious
|  reply to oliphant
Re: I'm no Vonage fan...
Although I keep a regular POTS line (with the absolute cheapest metered rate Verizon offers at ~$14/mo) just for 911 and cable outages, the bottom line is that you don't HAVE to use 911. Crap, I was alive before there WAS a 911 service. (and I'm not that old)
Phone books still have direct numbers to emergency services, such as ambulance, fire, and police printed in them. The important thing is to know what your services can, and can't, do - and communicate that to everyone that needs to know.
For me, at least, it is still cheaper to have cable internet ($42/mo), Vonage ($25/mo) and Verizon metered telephone ($14/mo). Primarily because I would have gotten the Internet connection anyway - but also because I was paying ~$100/mo in long distance charges before. |
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JPCass
join:2001-01-23
Denver, CO
| The Real World
I see a number of interesting phrases thrown about here like "average user" and "if you are literate". How much have we considered the implications of what concepts like that really mean when applied to the general population, and not just a tech-savvy sub-group?
About a quarter of the adult population in the US is functionally illiterate - a rate that reaches 50% in metropolitan areas with high rates of poverty and immigration - and only half is literate to an 8th grade level.
I'm certainly not suggesting that everything be dumbed-down. But when it comes to emergency services - and to phone services being mass-marketed on the basis of being a low-cost alternative - it is probably appropriate to make assumptions based on a lowest-common-denominator approach.
It's also worth keeping in mind that children are taught about 911, so any 911 service really should be simple enough for even an actual child to use. |
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DMS1
@motorola.com
| Anyone who perishes as a result of missing ten zillion warnings about activating 911 service should receive a Darwin award. They will die knowing that they have done the world a favour by removing their obviously-challenged genes from the human gene pool. |
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TheGhost
Premium
join:2003-01-03
Lake Forest, IL
clubs: | reply to DaveNJ
Re: force the customer to give info
Problem is, some people take the Vonage box on the road. It would be cool if somehow a GPS could be incorporated into the BOX and coordinates transmitted, but that may be a while off. |
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n2jtx
join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY | reply to 911Advocate
Re: PFT
said by 911Advocate:
your caller ID is looked at Actually that would be your ANI, not caller ID. Two different animals.
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I support the right to keep and arm bears. |
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verolom
join:2002-03-23
Eagleville, PA
·Comcast
| Vonage screwed up
In attempting to attract more customers by suggesting that their service is comparable to POTS I think Vonage screwed up. VoIP cannot truly reproduce a regular land line and all the development that was put to provide a reliable 911 service so Vonage should have never claimed they can support 911. The half way implementation they have is actually worse.
The average Joe doesn't know that, all they see is a phone and they know if they push 911 on that phone they should get an emergency response. The average Joe might not be the one who ordered and installed the Vonage service and not even aware it is VoIP so responsibility also falls onto the person who did. How is that for misleading and in this case really hurting your customers? |
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA
| reply to Captain Obvious
Re: I'm no Vonage fan...
I tried that. I was going to program the speed dial of all my phones with Police, Fire and Paramedics, but my Verizon phone book (and others) don't list emergency numbers other than 9-1-1. Departments here don't have emergency numbers any more...they all use 9-1-1. Only their front office (desk clerk) and direct numbers for some divisions within the department were listed.
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Don't get it, demand it! The Anime Network www.theanimenetwork.com |
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JPCass
join:2001-01-23
Denver, CO
| reply to DMS1
Re: The Real World
said by DMS1:
Anyone who perishes as a result of missing ten zillion warnings about activating 911 service should receive a Darwin award. I was waiting for the first post like that.
But if you think about it, it's the people who do stuff like harvest in the fields who are necessary for our survival, while "skills" like knowing how to navigate a telephone menu system are superfluous to basic survival and evolution.
It occurs to me, is a "technological elite" that may be unable to relate to and understand the actual majority of the population, really going to be able to function effectively in the long-run? Historically, such elites don't necessarily even physically survive periods of social turmoil. |
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moby866
Premium
join:2000-10-07
Above you
 ·surpasshosting
·RoadRunner Cable
 ·Vonage
·CableOne
1 edit | This is pointless political grandstanding.
As part of the Vonage sign up process I had to verify that I understood that I was not getting any 911 support until I had it activated. If someone signs up and does not have the 911 service activated, and then did not tell everyone that 911 did not work on the phone, then its not Vonage that made this mistake here.
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Health is merely the slowest possible rate at which one can die. |
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packetscan
Premium
join:2004-10-19
Bridgeport, CT
clubs: | reply to navalpatel
Re: PFT
Was their not terms an conditions upon signing up for this service?
I rest my case! |
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