Fountainhead
Premium
join:2003-10-25
New York, NY
clubs: | So what's the answer?
Which P2P App does not load up your computer with spyware and malware?
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It's all part of my rock and roll fantasy |
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Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| I Didn't Need to Read...
...to see that KaZaA was pure crap. After seeing the "fun" my friends PCs went through, and the blurb about the net on the software, I knew well enough to keep this sh*t off my PC.
I mean, how many Ford Pinto fireballs do you need to see in order to determine that it might not be the safest car in the world? |
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AEKDB
join:2004-03-07
Towson, MD | Good Work but....
Good work...but my heavens, how does he have time for this? |
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Rogue Wolf
Is Kind Of A Big Deal In Yemen
join:2003-08-12
Troy, NY
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| And if the party of the first part....
Really, is anyone surprised? Companies pack these EULAs so full of legalese and double-speak that we could read all the way through one that consigns our first-born children to ten years of servitude and not actually realize what we're agreeing to. And now they're just making them so long that most sane human beings simply don't have the patience to read completely through them.
I still say there needs to be a law stating that every program included in a bundle must have it's own EULA (preferably 500 words or less) and agreement box. Of course, then companies would just call the spyware "components".
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I do NOT trust the Internet. Spread tin cans and string! |
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fegul
Premium
join:2004-08-23
united state
| reply to AEKDB
Re: Good Work but....
said by AEKDB  :Good work...but my heavens, how does he have time for this? He's a professor, they always have time  j/k
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|Networking Help|My Blog| |
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Tsume
join:2004-02-23
Johnson City, TN | Only 182?
Wow, ONLY 182 pages? |
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Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| reply to Rogue Wolf
Re: And if the party of the first part....
said by Rogue Wolf :Of course, then companies would just call the spyware "components". I think they do that already. |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
| reply to Fountainhead
Re: So what's the answer?
said by Fountainhead :Which P2P App does not load up your computer with spyware and malware? »www.shareaza.com/ |
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Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| Limewire too, but then again, if you don't want to be caught, IRC channels can't be beat.
But, back in those days of the just-after-Napster, there weren't too many viable non-crapware P2P alternatives. Hell, they hadn't coined the term "adware", "spyware", or "crapware" in those days...we just saw a crapload more pop-ups than normal. |
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bedelman
Premium
join:2004-06-20
Cambridge, MA
| Finding time, and finding problems
Howdy folks. Glad to see this is of interest.
AEKDB, for better or for worse (perhaps worse!) I choose to spend a fair amount of discretionary ("free") time testing this kind of software, and recording what I find. I think I'm not alone in considering these installation practices important, and I actually do enjoy technical research and writing.
Fegul, I'm not a professor, just a grad student.
And on substance: I agree that the extreme length of many EULAs is cause for concern. But there's more to talk about than just length. Here are six other problematic characteristics that I observed in writing the piece and flipping through the screenshots:
1) Defective EULA content (e.g. missing links, broken links) (problems seen with Kazaa's Altnet and Claria, Morpheus's DirectRevenue)
2) Defective EULA formatting (e.g. missing section headings, or paragraph otherwise run together) (Kazaa's Claria, iMesh)
3) Misleading EULA presentation (e.g. putting multiple EULAS in one long box, without warning) (eDonkey, Kazaa's Altnet / MySearch)
4) Failure to show EULA, merely linking to EULA (Kazaa's main EULA and Altnet EULA)
5) Exceptionally dubious EULA presentation (e.g. tall narrow box w/ 3 words per line) (eDonkey)
6) Objectionable substantive terms (e.g. restrictions on how users can remove software [Kazaa's Claria, Morpheus's DirectRevenue], failure to describe software's purposes in even the most general terms [eDonkey's New.net], etc.)
So there's lots to think about, even beyond the very serious problem of extreme length. |
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Rama767
join:2002-08-02
White Plains, NY
| reply to Tsume
Re: Only 182?
182 ON SCREEN pages. That's totally acceptable IMHO, and if you don't have the patience to read through it then don't click 'yes'.
OK, now to turn off the sarcasm. I just wanted to say that there must be plenty of intelligent minds at work on this website. However, it doesn't seem that we all really put our minds to work to carve out a solution. Fine, we may not have millions of dollars, or tons of political power to start strong right away, but I think if there was some way to synthesize our ideas to solve this problem of adware/spyware/crapware I think we could actually make a difference. I, personally, have never been affected by adware. But that's because I use due diligence. But I truly believe that the sleazy tactics these companies use, no matter how 'legally legitimate', are just down right pathetic. The interesting thing is that if they were to take two seconds to think about how google has integrated ads into a multi billion dollar revenue stream, you'd think they would have changed their practices by now. |
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GemSnake
Premium
join:2000-10-19
3rd layer
clubs: | reply to bedelman
Re: Finding time, and finding problems
Kudos, buddy! We appreciate your discretionary time  What are you majoring in?
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"In a fight between you and the world, bet on the world." - Franz Kafka |
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ross
join:2000-08-16
 ·Digizip
| reply to fegul
Re: Good Work but....
said by fegul :said by AEKDB :Good work...but my heavens, how does he have time for this? He's a professor, they always have time j/k You mean their TAs always have time, don't you? |
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fartness
Computersoc Dot Com
Premium
join:2003-03-25
Look Outside
clubs: | reply to Fountainhead
Re: So what's the answer?
DC++ and i2Hub. |
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Indymike
join:2004-12-06
Indianapolis, IN
·Covad Communications
| reply to bedelman
Re: Finding time, and finding problems
Ben,
I for one would like to thank you for the time and effort that you have put into all of this. I'm amazed at what it takes to understand, let alone read, just ONE of these EULA's that some judge somewhere said "that's all that's needed".
By the time i get home after cleaning up PC's infected with most of this software, the last thing i want to do is play with it somemore!
Good job! I hope you can continue to keep doing it. Somewhere, sometime, somehow, all of this work is going to pay off for all of us (internet users) and I just want to say thank you! |
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Andrew J
Premium
join:2001-11-09
Lancaster, PA
clubs:
·Comcast
 ·Vonage
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to bedelman
Thanks Ben. I wouldn't read them since I wouldn't believe what they say.
"My testing uncovered no bundled software installed without at least some disclosure......"
I'm really shocked by that finding.
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Best Team. |
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Pz_
join:2001-03-31
Brownsburg, IN
clubs: | reply to Thaler
Re: I Didn't Need to Read...
I've seen my share of Pontiac Fieros burn up as well.
Looking back, you'd think people would have known. I mean, its sort of in the name. |
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David
No,there is another.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-05-30
Granite City, IL
clubs: | reply to bedelman
Re: Finding time, and finding problems
Nice research.. |
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tim_k
Buttons, Bows, Beamer, Shadow, Kasey
Premium
join:2002-02-02
Stewartstown, PA
 ·Millenicom
 ·WildBlue
| reply to Fountainhead
Re: So what's the answer?
said by Fountainhead :Which P2P App does not load up your computer with spyware and malware? »www.spywareinfo.com/articles/p2p/ Personally, I use Winmx. |
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Combat Chuck
Too Many Cannibals
Premium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA
| reply to Rama767
Re: Only 182?
It's as simple as this:
If the company feels the need to have 182 pages of legal document to describe the license for a piece of software, then it's pretty safe to assume they are hiding something and as such you can't trust the software.
You can solve many of life's problems by just staying as far away from lawyers as you can.
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Dear Hollywood:Shut up and dance monkey! |
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