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Comments on news posted 2005-01-09 13:11:57: Here's the question of 2005: Now that Microsoft is in the anti-spyware business, will they respond to Claria & WhenU "bribes" and weaken their definitions like Aluria did, or maintain some degree of integrity? Spyware Warrior points out that the pr.. ..
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 snoop69
join:2003-04-19
Cornwall, ON
| m$ hmmm.... i'm not sure if this has been brought up yet, cuz i didn't read through all the posts here just a few. but with m$ getting into the anti spyware market, wonder if they will get rid of there own spyware in there OS.  (alexa) as it's in the registry, when you first install windowz. | |
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Rob
In Deo speramus, God Bless the USA
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
 ·Comcast
| Re: m$ hmmm.... said by snoop69  :i'm not sure if this has been brought up yet, cuz i didn't read through all the posts here just a few. but with m$ getting into the anti spyware market, wonder if they will get rid of there own spyware in there OS. (alexa) as it's in the registry, when you first install windowz. I have yet to encounter this issue. Please post any links that will backup your statement.
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They cannot destroy our society, they cannot destroy our believe in the democratic way. They can destroy buildings, they can kill people and we will be sadden by these tragedies but they will never be allowed to kill the spirit of democracy! God Bless! | |
| | | snoop69
join:2003-04-19
Cornwall, ON
1 edit | Re: m$ hmmm.... don't need to post links, just hit start/run/regedit look in the first entry. HKEY_classes_root scroll down til you hit ad banner, there is 2 entries there that phone home.
i even have a screen shot, thats if i can get it to upload.
and if you run adaware, it will come up with the alexa entries. but doesn't get rid of the 2 folders that are there. | |
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Rob
In Deo speramus, God Bless the USA
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
·Comcast
| Re: m$ hmmm.... said by snoop69 :don't need to post links, just hit start/run/regedit look in the first entry. HKEY_classes_root scroll down til you hit ad banner, there is 2 entries there that phone home. i even have a screen shot, thats if i can get it to upload. and if you run adaware, it will come up with the alexa entries. but doesn't get rid of the 2 folders that are there. I don't have those listings in my registry. And neither did I ever have a "alexa" listing when I run adaware or spybot. This is a fresh installation.
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They cannot destroy our society, they cannot destroy our believe in the democratic way. They can destroy buildings, they can kill people and we will be sadden by these tragedies but they will never be allowed to kill the spirit of democracy! God Bless! | |
| | | | | snoop69
join:2003-04-19
Cornwall, ON | Re: m$ hmmm.... i just did a fresh install of xp early yesterday morning. and those 2 entries are there by default, when you do a fresh install. my screenshot is there to prove it, so i don't know what else to tell you. | |
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keith2468
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-03
Winnipeg, MB
| Re: didn't WB change the app that showed ads? The free versions of Adobe Acrobat Reader, QuickTime, RealPlayer, etc., show ads too.
It isn't all adware that anti-spyware / anti-adware products target.
Depending on the anti-adware company, the rules for labelling include installing without permission, or performing functions that aren't revealed to the user (like tracking their surfing to unassociated sites), or secretly installing other products unrelated to carrying out the stated purpose of the main product.
It is really malicious adware or illegal adware that things like Spybot S&D and Ad-aware go after.
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(Virus&Hijacking FAQ + Submit suspected malware + Backups FAQ + Security FAQ TOC) | |
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Vvian Kalyss
join:2003-10-14
Stage 5.0
clubs:
1 edit | Re: didn't WB change the app that showed ads? I'd like to point out that there should be no problem with legit adware, that is, products that simply display banner ads. Advertising is a necessary evil. We should be fine with harmless, passive banner ads. Classifying adware as malware doesn't make sense -- if you don't want to use something that is adware, then choose a different software product. Btw this is also assuming that you get a choice -- drive-by installs are always evil, period.
Our issues begin with spyware, although I suspect a small percentage of the populace wouldn't mind participating in a survey which requires them to send in some data. I have no issues with that either, provided (a) it is explained fully during installation (what you send, who to, how, when, why), and appears in the documentation, and (b) it is opt-in.
No doubt others can come up with points I've missed.
Edit: I hope you noticed the flawed "definition" of adware in the Weatherbug screenshot:
said by Weatherbug:
Adware is an application that monitors Web surfing behaviour to deliver online ads, and typically offers no other utility...
Bzzzt, wrong (ignore for the moment that "adware" refers to a category, not a specific app). Adware may use ads to pay for the software, but saying it offers no other utility is an outright lie. Who wants software that ONLY displays ads? That's pretty damn useless.
E.g. Adobe Acrobat Reader shows ads, I doubt anybody would claim that it "offers no other utility". | |
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keith2468
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-03
Winnipeg, MB
| Definition of Adware We have to be careful of the definition of adware and what is banned.
Software sponsored by advertising, with links to the advertiser, includes the free versions of:
- Adobe Acrobat Reader,
- Opera,
- RealPlayer,
- QuickTime
There is lots of good adware out there that many of us have willingly installed, that we want to keep running, that doesn't hide its presence, and that provides the facility to remove it by standard means (add/remove program).
On the other hand, the nasty adware, maybe "illegal adware" or "malicious adware", installs without permission, or carries out activities not revealed in the product description (not on the product description web, hiding it in the EULA is not disclosure to me), or actively resists removal, or doesn't provide a removal utility for itself.
So that a product is paid for by advertising is not enough to justify labelling it as unwanted by the user and worthy of deletion.
I think MS would agree with this or a similar definition.
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(Virus&Hijacking FAQ + Submit suspected malware + Backups FAQ + Security FAQ TOC) | |
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ph03n1x
join:2003-02-15
Sanford, FL
| Here's my thoughts I have used Giant Antispy in conjunction with Ad-Aware and Spybot S&D for the past 6 months. My impression of Giant is that it is quite thorough. Each of the products has a tendency to find a few things the others wont. From what I've read, most people see this as a good thing, as an assurance that all the junk is being found and removed. While this may be the case, I see having to run two or three or maybe four apps to find and remove all of the potential scumware as a huge problem.
That being said, it must still be made clear that Giant/MS Antispy is still prone to finding alot of false positives. This has been pointed out many times on many forum postings. I dont think that this is going to be corrected by Microsoft. I'm not one to bash Microsoft without good reason, but I'm willing to bet that this problem could actually get worse. In fact, this has potentially already started happening with the removal of the signature files for Minibug. I find this to be very problematic because the company behind Weatherbug probably has enough money to either convince MS to remove the signature files or to pay lawyers to carry on a long term lawsuit. On the other side of the coin, there's the Messenger Plus! plugin. A very high quality and useful program, in my opinion. While both programs come with the ability to opt out of the installation (with the newer releases of Weatherbug), I'd guess that Patchou may not have access to the same kind of cash resources Weatherbug would. Not to mention that, in my opinion, he's kind of trapped. I'm sure if he sued Microsoft over this issue, they would simply change MSN Messenger to prevent his program from functioning.
This is just one example. Are there more like this? It remains to be seen. Microsoft needs to make sure not to bow down to these companies otherwise before their app loses all credibility. Weatherbug is by far nowhere near the worst of the spyware/adware/malware junk that is infesting the Internet these days, but Microsoft still cannot let this set a precedent. I'd guess we are all sure when Claria/Gator or WhenU see this, they will be clamoring, begging, and pleading for the same treatment.
What we need to be pushing for is more antispyware applications that are similar in function to antivirus software. Proactive and reactive protection. Giant/MS Antispy, Spybot & Spysweeper are about the closest we've come to that. In closing here's what I feel is needed to resolve this issue:
•Antispyware software vendors _must_ not legitimize these applications based on the application maker's flimsy 'justifications'.
•The average user needs to be willing to learn so we can educate them on how to avoid the plague of spyware.
•Legislation is neccessary that makes software vendors clearly detail everything that a program is doing during an installation. (Apps like Weatherbug and Msgplus! have gone a long way toward getting there by detailing what else is being added and giving users the ability to opt out of it.)
//* Fullcirclepheonix *// | |
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viperpa33s
Why Me?
Premium
join:2002-12-20
Bradenton, FL
·Bright House
| Weatherbug does show popups To those who say Weatherbug don't show pop-ups outside the program, I have to say you are wrong. I had Weatherbug which came preinstalled with my HP computer and it showed pop-ups all the time. I finally ended up uninstalling Weatherbug.
If Microsoft is going to pander to Adware and Spyware companies, then it shows they are not a reputable company. Because AOL has a marketing deal with Weatherbug does that mean I have to be subjected to adware? Just shows AOL is going back to there old ways, advertisers first, customers last. | |
| suzi
Premium
join:2004-05-01
1 edit | targeting criteria Perhaps this will help answer the question of "Will Microsoft pander to adware vendors?"
Here's the page with the targeting criteria for the Antispyware program:
»www.spynet.com/info_spywarecriteria.aspx
(Yes, I know it still says GIANT at the top of the page, but that will change.)
My commentary here:
»netrn.net/spywareblog/archives/2···-policy/
That's just the beginning of matching adware companies' practices to the targeting criteria.
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aka Suzi, Spyware Warrior | |
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