  elias Premium,VIP join:2000-07-24 Miami, FL clubs:  | ISP Shouldn't Be Liable
They're just providing the pipe.
Kinda like making the gov't responsible if you steal a car, for having the road open, and allowing you to flee.
-- Elias -- Crunching the Midnight Oil |
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  TravisB Premium,Mod join:2000-02-22 Springfield, MO clubs:
Host: Dialup Southeast Asian Br..
| happened here too...
A local ISP ( www.semo.net ) did about the same thing, they blocked all P2P applications but never told anyone what was happening. After about a month or so they dropped it and put a 5GB upload cap on the service. -- »www.cardomain.com/id/travisbguy |
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  loserhead 3 Billion Chinese People Can Be Wrong
join:2004-01-01 Ellijay, GA
| ....
ok so this will definitely keep their users from using p2p filesharing programs, but for what reason?
everything i have heard about legal action being taken has been against the end user and not the ISP. corect me if im wrong, but im pretty sure the ISPs dont get sued.
it seems that Vispa, while trying to keep themselves safe from a nonexistent threat, have pushaed away customers. sounds like bad business to me. but this is all MHO....
==AA== |
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  RobinSena
@adelphia.net | P2P will always adapt. Most apps have dynamic port ability, as well as other steps to bypass enforcement efforts. If all else fails, their is always the reliable Newsgroups or IRC. |
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 kpatz MY HEAD A SPLODE Premium join:2003-06-13 Manchester, NH
| reply to elias Re: ISP Shouldn't Be Liable
We're starting down a slippery slope here... it started innocently enough when ISPs started blocking risky ports such as 135-139 and 445, not bad in and of itself, but then it's started to expand into ports like 25 (to block spam and/or mailservers), 80 inbound (blocking web servers), and now P2P apps?
If we let this continue, residential Internet connections will eventually be restricted to 80 and 443 outbound, to selected "safe" sites.
An ISP should provide internet ACCESS. If I want any ports or services blocked, I'll do it myself with this handy dandy device called a firewall. -- Robert Tappan Morris, Jr., got six months in jail for crashing 10% of the computers that Bill Gates made $100 million crashing last weekend. |
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  AthlGrond Premium,MVM join:2002-04-25 Aurora, CO
·Comcast
| reply to loserhead Re: ....
I think they just don't want to deal with the whole warning distribution process.
Here is what they said: said by Linked Vispa Support Site: Copied from another location that I posted to this morning (75% of it will related, ignore the bits which are not) :
I can confirm that at present Vispa is conducting a semi (note: not everything) block on some P2P networks while we conduct some research (which has provided quite disturbing at present). It's not planned to remain in place, but continue reading and I think you will understand why we have had to do this.
This measure has come about due to possible heavy legal action against Vispa for allowing downloading to continue. This started from dozens of reports every single day, which grew to over a hundred or so a week or reports of Copyright Infringement.
At first we warned users by giving them a call, gave them a slap wrist, and asked them to remove software which had basically got them in trouble. However the situation has got to a point that we can't maintain this level of personal treatment, especially due to increased warnings.
Therefore to give Vispa breathing space from the legal letters that have hit our desks, we are looking at a possible reverse solution to this problem. Blocking by default, and then if a user wishes to use P2P, then have to request access. This will, via some sort of legal agreement that takes to legal stance off Vispa and places any wrong-doings directly on the End User. Of course we will explain all the risks etc at this point. We believe this is the safe solution for all parties.
Don't get us wrong, we like everyone know the benefits of P2P, it's approach to push small music artists, upstart software companies etc, but the true fact is that 90% of material belongs to someone else. Smaller ISPs are a perfect test legal case, we don't have the in-house legal teams or the experience/resources to put up a fair fight, and it's for this reason why the likes of Vispa are getting targetted, the big boys have done the research.
Bandwidth does not come into play at all, we have plenty of spare capacity across our centrals as well as core transit. Though I would like to point out that no where do we state we are an unlimited service. Every Broadband user needs to remember, regardless of ISP that services are contended between 50:1 or 20:1 users, sitting on high resources service 24/7 is totally unfair on others. I could put it as a little rude to have this type of mindset.
Also at no point have we changed our terms and conditions, the last update to these was 14/02/2004 which covers all points addressed above. They quite clearly do state that we can make measures to protect ourselves and the customers. _________________ Martin Pitt Vispa Support Staff
-- System protected by Impregnable Ignorance (TM) |
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  draven Premium,Mod join:2002-02-20 my bunker | On a positive note ...
...that's probably the fastest ISP in the UK!  |
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  fartness Computersoc Dot Com Premium join:2003-03-25 Look Outside clubs: | reply to elias Re: ISP Shouldn't Be Liable
Like gun manufacturers aren't responsible if I kill someone. |
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  NewLife Just Keep Swimming, Just Keep Swimming
join:2001-07-31 Calhoun, GA
·AT&T Southeast
·Comcast
| reply to loserhead Re: ....
said by loserhead : ok so this will definitely keep their users from using p2p filesharing programs
But its only p2p apps, How quick everyone forgets about newsgroups and IRC. -- Computer Specs: AMD 2400 XP/512 PC2700 RAM/128 MEG ASUS 9280TS Video/80 GB HDD/Onboard Sound
"You are the weakest link, GOODBYE!" |
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  Julio Bachatero y Que? Premium join:2003-03-19 Brooklyn, NY clubs:
| said by NewLife : said by loserhead : ok so this will definitely keep their users from using p2p filesharing programs
But its only p2p apps, How quick everyone forgets about newsgroups and IRC.
Newsgrounps and IRC are not p2p. it's more of leech applications. -- Kurt Cobain Is My Guitar God. |
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 keyboard5684
join:2001-08-01 Youngsville, PA
·Teliax VOIP
·WestPAnet Inc.
·WestPAnet Inc. CA..
| reply to NewLife Most people do not use those. People never forgot, they just do not use them nearly as much as p2p apps.
Email can be used to send copyrighted materials to others, but thats not blocked. If 1,000,000 people did that then the ISP would probably end up scanning and blocking mp3 files?
ISPs should not block anything. I can see why they may wish to cap p2p but blocking is not there thing. ISPs are not cops and should not be. |
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  elias Premium,VIP join:2000-07-24 Miami, FL clubs: 
| reply to fartness Re: ISP Shouldn't Be Liable
said by fartness : Like gun manufacturers aren't responsible if I kill someone.
Exactly, nor the company that makes bullets, laser sights, scopes, etc.
-- Elias -- Crunching the Midnight Oil |
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  NewLife Just Keep Swimming, Just Keep Swimming
join:2001-07-31 Calhoun, GA
·AT&T Southeast
·Comcast
| reply to keyboard5684 Re: ....
said by keyboard5684 : ...they just do not use them nearly as much as p2p apps.
Because a normal person doesn't have the knowledge nor the patience to learn. Especially when you can just download install and start getting stuff with P2P apps -- Computer Specs: AMD 2400 XP/512 PC2700 RAM/128 MEG ASUS 9280TS Video/80 GB HDD/Onboard Sound
"You are the weakest link, GOODBYE!" |
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  Julio Bachatero y Que? Premium join:2003-03-19 Brooklyn, NY clubs: | i hope they stay on p2p programs. i dont want n00bs to start using IRC and Usenet. -- Kurt Cobain Is My Guitar God. |
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  RAZ Black
join:2001-10-04 Mansfield, TX | reply to elias Re: ISP Shouldn't Be Liable
this is just a test bed for more government intervention and control in the United States -- -= ok, who turned out the lights? =- |
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  inteller Sociopaths always win.
join:2003-12-08 Tulsa, OK | welcome to new China, please have a nice day. |
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  stet Volitar Prime
join:2002-03-08 Warren, MI
| AUPs of some ISPs
The AUPs of some ISPs (including WOW and Comcast) state that you are prohibited from running file servers. Sharing through P2P is running a file server. Therefor they can block you as a matter of their AUP and not because of any legal threats. -- THINGOL: Got the shiny? BEREN: Shiny's in my hand. THINGOL: And? BEREN: Hand's not here. THINGOL: Crap, I really wanted that shiny. |
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  BetYourAzz
thumbs down from: Doctor Four 
| ALL ISP's should be blocking illegal P2P traffic !
This ain't rocket science folks... There is no reason why every ISP should not be blocking illegal P2P traffic. It's quite simple to monitor illegal P2P traffic and both block it and notify authorities of who the participants are so they can be prosecuted. If ISP's don't do this willingly, then they deserve to be prosecuted for conspiracy to steal copyright protected materials. |
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  kchaz Just...Be Premium,MVM join:2002-02-12 Merced, CA clubs:  | news groups
this will make newsgroups that much more sought after...time to buy some stock in NGs  -- BBR America's Army Clan: [BBR]KcHaZ |
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  DSLucky Premium join:2002-04-23 Maud, OK clubs: | reply to BetYourAzz Re: ALL ISP's should be blocking illegal P2P traff
Bet: That is pure flame bait and you know it...Go register yourself, before you start posting inflammitory statments such as your last, you RIAA hack! |
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