sbdjaro
I Dunno
Premium
join:2004-01-29
Grand Junction, CO | _
It’s the first day of school today… I’m going to sit in the courtyard and use the wireless network between classes. Is this bad?
lol |
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hedyd4u
Premium
join:2003-12-16
Schenectady, NY | Only if you dislike handcuffs. |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
 ·Comcast
3 edits | Uh, yeah
From the article: "Accessing someone's computer system without their permission, under Indiana law, is trespassing."
NOTHING about internet access!
ALOT of Public Libraries are offering *FREE* Wi-Fi to anyone within range. No laws are being broken!
ANY shop, Library, whatever that is offering Wi-Fi to it's customers/public had better have *THEIR* systems locked down like Fort Knox! The free access is to the internet, not systems connected to the network. If you(me/them)break into another system connected to the free access that is being offered, THAT is against the law.
Here, in the S.F. Bay Area, there is alot of Wi-Fi being offered for free(some you have to purchase from the shop, then it's free). I use it from several places from time to time. NOT ILLEGAL!!!
My laptop is locked down so bad, I'm surprised I can even get out...  *I* am safe while using these FREE offerings.
People need to get educated, MANY Public Libraries *ARE* offering free access to ANYONE within range.
Here's some reading that is interesting... »www.wififreespot.com/ and most of Downtown Long Beach... »www.longbeachportals.com/wireles···t_us.htm .
I'm pretty sure, if you look, there is FREE offerings near you too. NOT jacking someone's un secured AP, an actual FREE offering. Accessing someone's AP/wireless network, without permission, *IS* illegal! Breaking into their system(s) *IS* illegal!
Free=Good, Wi-Fi=Good...FREE Wi-Fi=AWESOME!
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Nuke 'em all, let God sort 'em out. |
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drjim
Premium,MVM
join:2000-06-13
Torrance, CA
clubs:
| It Depends....
On what state you live in. In California, it's a felony to access and/or use someone's network *without their permission*. Would you get nailed? Hard to say, but the law *is* on the books. Yes, I know this has been discussed before, and I'm not looking for a fight, but it's a real law out here, and could be enforced if you got caught and the network owner wanted to press charges.
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One man's Magic is another man's Engineering. |
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pcscdma
Chocobo Chocobo Random Battle
Premium
join:2004-01-14
Winterset, IA
clubs: | best. quote.
"They even put a so-called wireless hot spot on the Internet."
EVER! |
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N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
 ·Verizon FIOS
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| WTF?!?!?!?
OK, if IF this is true, I have to say WTF on SO many levels.
First, this police officer has no right to even question this guy. The PO has no probable cause this guy is violating any laws. He’s just sitting on the park bench, typing away on his laptop. No crime in that. Being a LEO I would have politely told this officer to mind his own business.
Second, the local police have no authority to enforce Federal law. The only way a local, or state officer (let alone a glorified campus security guard) could arrest a person for a violation of a Federal law would be as authorized by a Federal law enforcement official, and/or an active warrant. I’ve been in this line of work for 6 years now, and with the exception of constitutional case law as it relates to people’s protected rights I know dittly SQUAT about federal law. Just because he clams some Secret Service agent told him so, doesn’t give the power to arrest on sight for it.
Finally, I would review the acceptable use policy with the library. If the Library has an acceptable use policy, ask for a written copy of it. If the policy doesn’t state you must be in the library to use the signal, I would sit on the park bench for sport, and wait for this moron to come back. Let him arrest you ( don’t resist, resisting even a false arrest is resisting arrest), get a good lawyer, and show this bum what Federal court REALLY looks like.
Something tells me this story is either made up or embellished a bit…. |
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Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
 ·Site5.com
·AT&T Midwest
·Comcast
|  A few bad apples...
For starters, I have a high gain magnetic mount antenna that I use to get access to open access points. So yes, I wardrive. However, is it illegal? Probably. I look at a network as property of a house or workplace. If they leave the front door wide open, do I have permission to come in? What about come in and use their electricity or appliances? Can I watch TV in their den? Most people would be royally pissed if they left their front door unlocked and then came home to find someone on their couch watching TV.
Now, a lot of people aren't going to notice the intrusion. Most wardrivers aren't going to hurt anything. However, it will be the few bad apples that spoil it for everyone. I know some wardrivers who try to do damage for instance. There is one person I know who checks for the default router password and changes it for instance. Others look for open shares in the workgroup domain and delete files.
It will be those people that will make wardriving a crime.
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My Domain
Nightfall's Hockey and Life Journal |
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Imogen8
join:2001-11-04
UK
| what about signal disruption?
would it be legal to fire up bit of equipment that interfered with the wireless signal and made the network useless? what if someone does it unknowingly? would they be committing an offense?
I mean they have not accessed anything illegal  |
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subman87
Another day in the Brentwood
join:2000-11-24
Harrison, NY | non - sense article
I've used my laptop outside public building's (town hall & library) that were WI-FI equipped, and was never approached by an officer of the law. Sorry but this article is a BS. |
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tomkb
Premium
join:2000-11-15
Avon, OH
clubs: | On my property
If a signal comes onto my property, I can use it as I wish.
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Piobaireachd
Happy Halloween
Premium
join:2000-09-21
Port Orchard, WA
| But the Secret Service told me!
Nip it in the bud! |
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pipdipchip
8 Megabits A Second
Premium
join:2003-12-04
Hanover, MN
| Computer Laws So......
I'm so sick of these dumb computer laws that make no sense. I'm sorry but who put some 50+ guys in charge of making computer laws like the DMCA for example? I could MAYBE MAYBE! see a cop pulling you over if you were "abusing" a private persons internet access. But wouldn't a library's internet access be public domain? It just makes no sense to me. "Theft of signal"? Come on. |
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pipdipchip
8 Megabits A Second
Premium
join:2003-12-04
Hanover, MN | I can see why he didn't want to go in. At my the old library I used to go to the library staff were b*tches. I know that seems immature but they really were. Small town I guess. |
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joako
Premium
join:2000-09-07
/dev/null
·AT&T U-Verse
| reply to pipdipchip
said by pipdipchip  :
I'm so sick of these dumb computer laws that make no sense. I'm sorry but who put some 50+ guys in charge of making computer laws like the DMCA for example? I could MAYBE MAYBE! see a cop pulling you over if you were "abusing" a private persons internet access. But wouldn't a library's internet access be public domain? It just makes no sense to me. "Theft of signal"? Come on.
I dont see why a cop would give three $*(!& as to what you were doing on a laptop outside a library, unless of course you shouldnt be sitting out there in the first place.
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I'm joakimsen and I approve this message.»sveasoft.pifiu.com |
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DaDogs
Semper Vigilantis
Premium
join:2004-02-28
Deltaville, VA
2 edits | reply to Nightfall
Re: A few bad apples...
Nightfall;
If you are accessing systems which you believe to be private and not available for putlic access, you are demonstrating a serious conflict between what you do and what you believe. If you believe it is wrong, you should not do it.
However, as far as I am aware (and I used to do intercept work for a living). You do not need Title authorization to intercept an unencrypted 802.11b data streams. You do need wiretap orders to intercept cellular, mobile phone, and voice pager. Unless something has changed, you do not need authorization to intercept digital pager. It is not illegal to monitor public service communications fire, police, and rescue. As far as I am aware, and unless something has changed drastically, the only new protected communications since 1993 is the link between a cordless phone and it's base unit. Indeed that was not protected until the Supreme Court ruled on a drug smuggeling case out of San Angelo, Texas, where *someone* intercepted Arabic language communications between the handheld and the base and taped it.... circa 1993.
Bottom line, you probably are not illegal if you are intercepting 802.1x but you may be illegal at the moment you associate with an access point. Anyone running a wireless sniffer should carefully research any assertions I made here because I have had little interest in the changes in the laws since 1993. A lot can change in eleven years.
All that said, I run wireless sniffers from time to time. I have monitored networks where I was confident the owners of those networks would not approve of me having access to the network content. I have used the information gleaned to improve the security of anyone who would listen. I do not approach the vulenrable networks personally because to date I have not bothered with anything but networks which clearly should have been secured and which were not secured. I have spoken with state reps and asked them to talk with the cities and counties involved to make them aware they are not secured. So far this process has worked and not gotten me into trouble. I tend to be very cautious because this is one kind of play where they will definately shoot the messanger if the public is made aware of their stupidity. County and city officials really hate being made to look stupid.
Personally I would like to see an application developed for the wardriver which would log into a completely unsecured AP which remained at it's defaults and set a WEP key, change the admin password, and log off all automagically. Then I would like to see about 500 war drivers running around the US with that piece of software running from their cars. Sounds harsh? Yeah, but it would damn sure get the people's attention and that needed to happen a long time ago.
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»members.ozemail.com.au/~lbrash/msjokes/ |
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pipdipchip
8 Megabits A Second
Premium
join:2003-12-04
Hanover, MN
1 edit | reply to joako
Re: Computer Laws So......
Yeah really come on. Cops should stop pulling over people for fake laws and go out their and really do there job. How did the cop even know he was using the library's internet access? I mean in court what would the cop say. "He had a computer in front of the library." The judge would probably say, "A computer in front of a library?!?!? My god. What has this world turned into?" |
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to Nightfall
Re: A few bad apples...
said by Nightfall :
For starters, I have a high gain magnetic mount antenna that I use to get access to open access points. So yes, I wardrive. However, is it illegal? Probably.
You are also violating FCC law. If your antenna is NOT type accepted for that piece of equipment, then you are breaking the law.
Also, if the antenna has a high gain and goes over the 1W ERP (with an omni-directional antenna) or 4W (with a yagi antenna), you are above Part 15 rules and therefore in violation.
»www.pacwireless.com/faq/fcc_eirp.shtml |
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hedyd4u
Premium
join:2003-12-16
Schenectady, NY
| reply to Nightfall
No you do not have permission to just walk in and make your self at home. Just because some liberal lawyers thinks so, you can get yourself shot doing so. Dead men don't talk so when the police come they will hear you broke in to satisfy you liberals who think you can use property that is not yours. You can justify your criminal behavior any way you want but a crime is still a crime.
Why are the morals and ethics so low in America today? |
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ithxp
join:2002-11-13
Toms River, NJ
| Load OF Shit
Guys lets face facts here
unless you are told by the pople who pay for the net to let you use it that not iligal but if your some idiot who cant pay for his own and gota "wardriver" it or get free from some one els with them knowing....
i would personaly hack there system
belive me alot of people in my state use network moniter programs and tell whos on and whos not plus it tells IP address
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»community.webshots.com/s/image6/···i_fs.jpg |
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DaDogs
Semper Vigilantis
Premium
join:2004-02-28
Deltaville, VA
3 edits | What 'bout vendor responsibility?
The vendors, the WiFi alliance, and the IEEE, have all dropped the ball when it comes to protecting the public with respect to 802.11b!
It frustrates me no end when I see vendors, who KNOW, about the problems with WiFi not makeing ANY effort to mitigate them.
How hard would it be to REQUIRE the installer of an AP to set the system SSID? Why haven't the vendors written their software so that that was a requirement? Why hasn't WiFi alliance called for that? The answer is simple enough, they are about dollars, nothing more and nothing less.
Whenever we have this discussion about whether or not War Driving is moral or not, it always boils down to, "They left the doors open", "They didn't even change the SSID".
The user should be REQUIRED by the firmware to set a password and SSID before the unit will operate.
The industry should agree upon a standard word, phrase, or symbol which is a mandatory part of the SSID if the network is to be available for public access.
Those two steps would go a very long way to quelling this debate but they have not been addressed by the vendors because there is no money in them.
So here, "war drivers", I'll do it for you. If the word PUBLIC is not part of the SSID, you should assume the network is NOT PUBLIC. Really kiddies, how hard is this anyway?
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»members.ozemail.com.au/~lbrash/msjokes/ |
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