Lumberjack
Premium
join:2003-01-18
Newport News, VA
| Keeps them from hiding....
I could under stand Verizon's point, but if the fee is included in the advertised price it would really promote better competition. Yeah sure my plan is $59.95 but if they were to include the $5 or so for the stupid fees it would allow me to better compare my plans. At least taxes are equal (and thus should be listed separately) so they don't pose as big of an issue.
If they keep going in this direction then the service will be $5/month but the fees will be $87.95.
--
BBr UT2004 Clan Administrator |
|
Automate
join:2001-06-26
Atlanta, GA | I have a simple solution
Allow the phone companies to include all the "fees" they want but require that any advertised price must include all fees. In other words they have to advertise the true final cost to the customer including all fees. |
|
djrobx
join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
 ·PHONE POWER
 ·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T CallVantage
·Time Warner VOIP
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| Include it AND list it!
"I'm surprised that anyone thinking of consumers first would want to eliminate information that explains to consumers what those fees are for,"
If you want to be "pro consumer" and list the fee, great, do it. That's not mutually exclusive with including the fee in the price. Break down my $26.95 DSL however you want. You can make it 27 different line items for all I care, as long as it adds up to the $26.95 I expected to pay when I ordered service.
--
\\ROB - a part of the SCB local network |
|
icp1
Premium
join:2000-10-13
Saint Louis, MO
clubs:
 ·AT&T DSL Service
| reply to Automate
Re: I have a simple solution
said by Automate  :
Allow the phone companies to include all the "fees" they want but require that any advertised price must include all fees. In other words they have to advertise the true final cost to the customer including all fees.
Exactly what i was thinking.
breaking them out in detail is fine (if annoying) but as long as they just area allowed only to advertise the final price, they can itemize all they want. |
|
Swingerhead
Premium
join:2004-04-06
Richmond, VA | Same as Mortgages
Sounds like the same thing that you get when you apply for a mortgage. They have to tell you a good faith estimate on what you will pay per month. |
|
mrljcsi
join:2002-10-19
Saint Charles, MO |  reply to icp1
Re: I have a simple solution
Makes perfect sens to me. At least you get an ACTUAL price for the service and can better budget if necessary..... |
|
dick white
Premium
join:2000-03-24
Annandale, VA
·Verizon FIOS
| fees charged are usually not related to costs paid
I've read that the amounts of money collected by the companies from consumers for these particular items bear little or no relationship to the actual costs incurred by the companies to perform whatever "regulatory" function they say must be done. The only difference between these guys and the used car salesman is these guys don't wear neckties made of upholstery fabric...
dw |
|
CompNrdCR
@liquidaudio.com
| reply to Automate
Re: I have a simple solution
Here in CA at the gas pump it says "price shown includes all taxes and fees" so when it says $200 for a full tank of gas it is $200 dollars.
I agree that all fees should be listed in the price... 26.95 DSL service = 32.95
-Thats my 10 cents |
|
rchandra
Stargate S G-1 And Atlantis Fan
Premium
join:2000-11-09
14225-2105
clubs:
| Verizon Online
...begins this Sat., 01-May-2004. What really gets me is the section of the FAQ they've written:
Q: How does the Supplier FUSF Recovery Fee appear on my invoice?
A: The FUSF charge is identified on your invoice as “Supplier FUSF
Recovery” and appears as a line-item in the "Charges and Credits
Detail" section. This is an applicable fee, not a tax or government
required charge.
...so if it's not a government required charge, why are you charging it? If it's not a government required charge, it seems to me you have discretion whether or not to charge it!
--
English is a difficult enough language to interpret correctly when its rules are followed, let alone when a writer chooses not to follow those rules. Blog is here |
|
rchandra
Stargate S G-1 And Atlantis Fan
Premium
join:2000-11-09
14225-2105
clubs: | reply to djrobx
Re: Include it AND list it!
Gasoline (and other motor fuel) retailers have been doing this for years (and also pretending I could pay less than a cent per gallon, BTW). hmmm.... |
|
maciej
@comcast.net
| Phone prices like gas prices
I like very much decision of the Missouri PSC, and I hope that other states follow suit. I propose that prices of telephone lines are advertised the same way as gasoline prices (i.e. all fees, charges and taxes included). When I drive around looking for gas I have no problem comparing prices at different gas stations. With the phone line, various hidden fees and charges constitute often more than 50% of the advertised price. Recently I was paying SBC $32 per month. Is an offer of $25 better? Probably not, as SBC's line charge is only $21, and rest are taxes, fees and surcharges. These are likely to be added by a competitor too. Very often customer can only learn about these hidden fees after he or she has signed up for service. Cancelling at that point and switching to other company is not practical, as setup fees usually go around $40-50. In essence, current practice is an example of dishonesty and cheating, so I am really glad that somebody proceeds with a plan to ban it. |
|
bistro777
Donuts-Is There Anything They Can't Do?
Premium
join:2002-02-07
Englewood, CO
| reply to Automate
Re: I have a simple solution
Dear Valued Customer:
At the request of a myriad of so-called public interest groups (meaning anyone not on ourside of the fence), henceforth your monthly bill will be broken-down to explain your base rate plus any additional, paltry, trifling, you-ll-never-feel-em surcharges.
From this billing forward, our automated billing system (just try calling us someday to talk to a real person) code-named CREEP - Customer Report Excepting Everything Pertinent – will detail your service plan and all associated price-gouging charges. Your current billing:
Base rate - - $19.95
Base rate 4-9s connection fee - - $2.00
Modem rental - - $5.00
Neighbor’s rental even though you own your own - - $2.00
Federal tax - - $2.00
Federal tax credit – who are we kidding, we don’t pay any - - ($2.00)
Federal tax just in case we goof and actually have to pay something someday - - $3.00
Federal universal service fund - - $2.00
Our PAC’s fund - - $4.00
Regulatory fee (current) - - $1.50
Regulatory fee (future) - - $2.00
CEO’s club dues (meals extra, your mileage may vary) - - $2.50
Attorney fees (for our shareholder lawsuits) - - $2.00
Broadband portability fund (in case you move someday and we lose your business) - - $15.00
TOTAL DUE upon receipt - - more than you ever thought…and definitely more than you’ve ever heard or read in our advertisements.
NOTE: Most of our fees have nothing to do with regulation or government-mandated charges. If, in future billings, a single line-item entitled “additional profit” would suffice, please advice and your account will be credited with gold star.
Thank you for your understanding,
Your service provider (/laughing at you all the way to the bank)
"The problem with the world is that everyone is a few drinks behind." -- Humphrey Bogart |
|
Minister
join:2002-01-02
Fleeting | See, now you're going to make the bell people all mad with your assault on the poor, defenseless, honest, and penniless bells. I can hear them coming.... |
|
jtudor
Xm 60's On 6 Freak
Premium,MVM
join:2002-12-07
Morganton, NC
|  Too many fees
Kinda reminds me of my LD bill last month. I had one LD call in the AT&T portion of my bill. 1 minute at $0.17. By the time AT&T was through with me I paid them $8.53 for that one call.
AT&T thus lost my business, After the latest round of added fees, I changed my LD carrier.
--
Best of luck
"Do, or Do not, there is no try!" Yoda |
|
yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH |  Sure...
Sure, itemize our bill. If it truly is a fee, list it as such, but give us information about it and point out the law or regulation it comes from. Don't just slap some phoney, bullshit title on another charge. |
|
jgwilliams
Premium,VIP
join:2003-09-16
Chesterland, OH
clubs:
| reply to rchandra
Re: Verizon Online
I don't know that anyone is looking at this in the right light, and perhaps because you don't know how things work on the other side.
In a regulated environment the utilities can not set their own price, the rates are approved by the PUC. Now the rates are derived from the Telephone companies cost of providing the service (the regulatory fees they pay are not a part of that cost - in this consideration). The PUC then allows them to have a certain markup, and in fact the phone company can not even charge less if they wanted to, let alone more.
The phone company then has fees, both regulatory fees from the government that they have to pay from their margin, and other non-elective costs such as 911.
The language relative to 'not a required charge' speaks to the regulatory ruling, and is a required statement. In short it is something like this:
Mr. Phone company it costs you 22.50 per month to provide dial tone, so you are going to charge consumers 25.90 and businesses 41.75.
In addition to that you need to provide 911 (this comes with a great deal of cost by the way), and you have these other fees you need to pay the government (these fees are not a part of the operating costs considered in regulating their retail price).
Then the phone company is given permission to recover a percentage of those costs, but not mandated to do so. If the phone company does decide to recover those costs then the PUC tells them a maximum amount (as a percentage usually - of the bill) that the are permitted to charge, and the phone company (being an elective recovery) can charge any amount, up to that percentage.
This is not a fee that the phone company pulls out of thin air, and for the most part they can not afford to eat the costs as their margins are pretty slim.
I am not here to defend the bell companies however in this case, most of the costs you realize on your bill are government related.
--
JW
|
|
bistro777
Donuts-Is There Anything They Can't Do?
Premium
join:2002-02-07
Englewood, CO
1 edit | reply to Minister
Re: I have a simple solution
I will cheerfully add any telco (RBOC or other - it's not just the Bells), cable operator, cell provider, my gas and electric companies, and all those who obfuscate, hide and camouflage (additional) profit under the cloak of a nebulous, vague or misleading heading.
I mean, c'mon, it's like we need truth-in-lending or good-faith documentation from these guys every time the monthly bills arrive. Guess I just get tired of "How much is it?" v. "How much you got?" 
"There are no foreign lands. It is the traveler only who is foreign." - - Robert Louis Stevenson |
|
rchandra
Stargate S G-1 And Atlantis Fan
Premium
join:2000-11-09
14225-2105
clubs:
| reply to jgwilliams
Re: Verizon Online
J, I'm speaking more to the language of the FAQ. They need to write what they mean. By writing "not required," very plainly, that means "optional" to me. If as you write Verizon are required to write that, I guess it just changes the focus of disgust from VZ to their regulators.
The comparison seems flawed though. AFAIK, the DSL side of VZ aren't government regulated, as the telephony side of their biz (at least not yet).
What's even a little more puzzling on the regulatory front is that GSP fees are no longer itemized as they once were. The same concept as is echoed here in these news item comments applies...we usually prefer bottom-line pricing. Their advertised rates made only minor mention that a GSP fee was part of the monthly fee. But I guess it's tough to have it both ways.
"You're now going to pay $37.95 each month for your DSL"
"Why did you raise my rates?"
"We now have FUSF charges to pay"
"oh...."
Ignorance is bliss I guess.
--
English is a difficult enough language to interpret correctly when its rules are followed, let alone when a writer chooses not to follow those rules. Blog is here |
|
garagerock
Premium
join:2002-06-14
Louisville, KY | reply to bistro777
Re: I have a simple solution
hey, when was the last time you bought a car? the hidden charges are obscene. no one ever gets the prices on TV... |
|
n2jtx
join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY
·Optimum Online
| reply to jtudor
Re: Too many fees
said by jtudor :
Kinda reminds me of my LD bill last month. I had one LD call in the AT&T portion of my bill. 1 minute at $0.17. By the time AT&T was through with me I paid them $8.53 for that one call.
AT&T thus lost my business, After the latest round of added fees, I changed my LD carrier.
I dumped AT&T as well for the very same reason. I make very very few LD calls (in fact, since I dropped them in March, I haven't made any). AT&T instituted a $5/month minimum charge in March. Then came the taxes and other surcharges (in-state connection fee, cost recovery fee, etc.) and I was seeing an $8 charge without making any calls. Let them soak someone else... Buh-Bye AT&T... |
|
