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Comments on news posted 2003-01-13 10:51:18: Sharman Networks, owners of the Kazaa file trading client, have a scattered international presence that has so far made prosecution by the RIAA a difficult endeavor. ..

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r0dman join:2002-11-22 80780	BS Even if they charge him with something how they going to make him pay.
	permalink · 2003-01-13 10:56:57 ·

technick Premium join:2000-12-16 Loganville, GA	Re: BS They can only make him pay if they catch the people(s) that are going to be sued in the United States. -- AMD 2100, 256 MEG PC 3200, 80 GIG HDD, MSI KT4 Ultra Board, MSI GEFORCE 4 TI 4200
	permalink · 2003-01-13 11:37:26 ·

twitter Rawwwwrrr Premium join:2002-06-07 Lexington, KY	A Chink in Kazaa's Armor? California judge says Kazaa can be prosecuted LMFAO
	permalink · 2003-01-13 23:22:13 ·

caleet Radio X - Usradiox.Com Premium join:2002-05-29 Middletown, OH	The RIAA If only the RIAA would quit throwing money at all this legal stuff .... maybe they wouldn't show a loss. -- Charles »www.livexradio.com
	permalink · 2003-01-13 10:59:24 ·

Krytor Reminiscing The Future Premium join:2001-07-07 Indianapolis, IN ·AT&T U-Verse	Re: The RIAA I agree. Stop paying the lawyers and put money into research and development of some new and improved entertainment technology. Not a new music format, but something cool like "Björk in a can" ... just add water and you have a clone of Björk to sing lullaby's to you as you drift off to sleep at night. Now that's entertainment! j/k
	permalink · 2003-01-13 11:14:13 ·

technick Premium join:2000-12-16 Loganville, GA	Re: The RIAA Better yet besides Bjork, have the donna's sing you a lullaby. Or.. a wicked track from Manson =) -- AMD 2100, 256 MEG PC 3200, 80 GIG HDD, MSI KT4 Ultra Board, MSI GEFORCE 4 TI 4200
	permalink · 2003-01-13 11:38:34 ·

Kaori Masako Kaori Masako join:2001-05-24 Westminster, MD	ROTFL!! Good point! I was just about to post the same thing. KaZaa should just be left alone, there will always be another to follow, there ARE others now. It's a shame, you'd think music should be free for EVERYONE, but I guess the RIAA doesn't see it that way. I've actually started to encourage bands to NOT get signed. -- - What's Broadband?- If you won't rescue, don't breed.
	permalink · 2003-01-14 14:31:46 ·

sedu join:2002-01-10 Freeland, MD	Sue The Sun For Shining California judges, both state and federal, have a long history of being overruled on appeal. Furthermore, even if a judgment is obtained, it doesn't mean squat in Vanuatu, where the corporation is headquartered.
	permalink · 2003-01-13 11:16:23 ·

Pz_ join:2001-03-31 Brownsburg, IN clubs:	Re: Sue The Sun For Shining I was wondering how they were going to enforce California law somewhere else in the world.
	permalink · 2003-01-13 11:21:59 ·

technick
Premium
join:2000-12-16
Loganville, GA

Re: Sue The Sun For Shining

If Kazaa is ruled against what is the worst that could happen? Would they rule to force ISP's to block all Kazaa Activity here in the United States? Is that possible? Wouldn't you be able to proxy around anything like that?

I'm just reviewing the worst case scenario's, and I don't think anything is going to come of this. The RIAA should just cut the loses, and come up with a viable business model. If you don't grow you die.
--
AMD 2100, 256 MEG PC 3200, 80 GIG HDD, MSI KT4 Ultra Board, MSI GEFORCE 4 TI 4200

permalink · 2003-01-13 11:33:49 · Print ·

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

·Comcast

said by Pz_ :
I was wondering how they were going to enforce California law somewhere else in the world.

They don't have to. The MPAA/RIAA's next project, called the "Preparation H", will put a huge meteor onto a collision course with Earth. Upon impact, the polar ice caps will melt, causing a global flood that will simply put the island of Vanatu underwater.

That is, unless Sharman forks over 100 billion zillion kajillion dollars LOL.
--
DRM == Doesn't Read MP3s

permalink · 2003-01-13 13:07:57 · Print ·

jhudson2 Copyright Martyr join:2000-11-07 San Marcos, CA	So your assertion is that regardless of the issue or facts a ruling from a California judge is automatically more likely to be overturned on appeal? Upon which stereotype are you basing this observation? -- When a dog howls at the moon, we call it religion. When he barks at strangers, we call it patriotism. - Edward Abbey
	permalink · 2003-01-13 12:28:42 ·

smokeyjon Life Is Overrated join:2002-06-11 Germantown, MD	Re: Sue The Sun For Shining I think he's basing this assumption on the fact that rulings from California judges, and the federal circuit responsible for California, are routinely overturned. He's probably also basing this assumption on the fact that most of the rest of the country seems to think that these judges live in their own little dream world.
	permalink · 2003-01-13 13:21:59 ·

CFeicht4 join:2000-09-01 Oley, PA	Re: Sue The Sun For Shining "He's probably also basing this assumption on the fact that most of the rest of the country seems to think that these judges live in their own little dream world." As do most Californians. -- When a dog howls at the moon, we call it religion. When he takes a squat, we call it liberalism." - CFeicht
	permalink · 2003-01-13 14:20:40 ·

lujohnson
N 0 E Q P

join:2002-08-08
Agoura Hills, CA

·Sprint Mobile Broa..

Re: Sue The Sun For Shining

_________________________________________________________
>>"He's probably also basing this assumption on the fact that most of the rest of the country seems to think that these judges live in their own little dream world."

As do most Californians.
__________________________________________________________

Oh yeah? Well at least we don't scoot around in rust-bucket jalopies like you guys up in PA. Phhhht! You and your 'road-salt' lobby. Our cars last 15+ years. Dream world? In that regard, I guess so!

permalink · 2003-01-14 01:41:51 · Print ·

UrScrewed86 join:2000-11-26 Edison, NJ clubs:	Re: Sue The Sun For Shining uhh earthquakes? Major Disasters? Anyways my dad has a house in LA =P -- Risk Everything, Live Dangerously!
	permalink · 2003-01-14 16:05:22 ·

jhudson2
Copyright Martyr

join:2000-11-07
San Marcos, CA

said by smokeyjon :
I think he's basing this assumption on the fact that rulings from California judges, and the federal circuit responsible for California, are routinely overturned.

Municipal, state or federal? Civil or criminal? Are you talking about the entire country compared to just California or a particular state?

said by smokeyjon :
He's probably also basing this assumption on the fact that most of the rest of the country seems to think that these judges live in their own little dream world.

What does the opinion of the general population have to do with whether a legal opinion is correct or not, regardless of the State in which it was rendered?
--
When a dog howls at the moon, we call it religion. When he barks at strangers, we call it patriotism. - Edward Abbey

permalink · 2003-01-13 14:24:14 · Print ·

smokeyjon
Life Is Overrated

join:2002-06-11
Germantown, MD

Re: Sue The Sun For Shining

First of all, I was being more than a little sarcastic.

However, I'm talking primarily about federal rulings, since those are the ones that get the most airplay.

Of course, we also get to hear about some of the wonderful resolutions passed by the City/Town/People's Republic of Berkeley, so if nothing else, I would like to thank California for the vast amount of entertainment it produces, even outside of Hollywood.

permalink · 2003-01-13 14:45:52 ·

jhudson2
Copyright Martyr

join:2000-11-07
San Marcos, CA

Re: Sue The Sun For Shining

said by smokeyjon :
I would like to thank California for the vast amount of entertainment it produces, even outside of Hollywood.

And I thank you for showing me that some of you Easterners are no slouches in the wacky irrational other-world thinking department.

You should move out here with us. Apparently you'd fit right in.

--
When a dog howls at the moon, we call it religion. When he barks at strangers, we call it patriotism. - Edward Abbey

permalink · 2003-01-13 15:45:46 · Print ·

smokeyjon Life Is Overrated join:2002-06-11 Germantown, MD	Re: Sue The Sun For Shining You can't possibly be defending the absolute lunacy that comes out of that feel-good, magic mushroom, we-still-haven't-left-the-60's bastion of utopian BS that is Berkeley, CA....can you? And yes, there is plenty of wacky, irrational, other-world wrong-headed thinking over here on the East Coast...there's just none of it in my apartment
	permalink · 2003-01-13 17:52:36 ·

jhudson2
Copyright Martyr

join:2000-11-07
San Marcos, CA

Re: Sue The Sun For Shining

What they're doing in Berkelely, and elsewhere in "liberal" California is known as Representative Democracy. And to that extent, yes I do defend it. So should you if the values most Americans pay lip service to mean anything at all.

And by the way, not only are we the most liberal State in the Union we're also the most tolerant and by far the richest. Gee, how could that happen?

I'm sorry, but I fail to see the problem that needs fixing here.
--
When a dog howls at the moon, we call it religion. When he barks at strangers, we call it patriotism. - Edward Abbey

permalink · 2003-01-13 21:36:37 · Print ·

smokeyjon
Life Is Overrated

join:2002-06-11
Germantown, MD

Re: Sue The Sun For Shining

Hey, I never said it should be stopped, just that it was damn entertaining in its sheer idiocy. Please, let it continue, it surpasses much of the tripe coming out of Hollywood.

As far as tolerant, no one has a Constitutional right not to be offended. Sorry, but "tolerance" as is defined today is silly and meaningless.

Also, I would hope that a state that places such a huge tax burden on such a large population WOULD be the richest...now if you could just do something about those billions in debt...

permalink · 2003-01-13 21:49:58 · Print ·

jhudson2 Copyright Martyr join:2000-11-07 San Marcos, CA	Re: Sue The Sun For Shining Tolerance is never silly or meaningless. Only the intolerant don't understand this truism.
	permalink · 2003-01-13 22:35:07 ·

Naiirita Lupus Premium join:2002-12-20 Splendora, TX	Re: Sue The Sun For Shining lol thats just it u dont know the meaning of the word, u dont want tolerence, u want acceptance. that is why there is trouble. and tolerence can be silly and stupid. and VERY dangerous. -- there are 10 kinds of ppl in the world, those that get binary, and those that dont. [text was edited by author 2003-01-13 22:45:34]
	permalink · 2003-01-13 22:42:44 ·

jhudson2 Copyright Martyr join:2000-11-07 San Marcos, CA	Re: Sue The Sun For Shining LOL. I'm sorry, I only speak English. Would you care to punctuate?
	permalink · 2003-01-13 22:45:35 ·

Naiirita Lupus Premium join:2002-12-20 Splendora, TX	Re: Sue The Sun For Shining the fact u say u speak only english proves u know nothing of the language. tolerence mean it is tolerated accetpence means it is accepted.go to webster and look it up, or i will when i get home. if u still cant figure it out, i guess i will give u an anology. -- there are 10 kinds of ppl in the world, those that get binary, and those that dont.
	permalink · 2003-01-13 22:58:15 ·

Naiirita Lupus Premium join:2002-12-20 Splendora, TX	yep california is so rich, just to bad u cant pay ure electric bill. and what exactly makes u think u are the richest? what criteria are u using? -- there are 10 kinds of ppl in the world, those that get binary, and those that dont. [text was edited by author 2003-01-13 22:18:03]
	permalink · 2003-01-13 22:16:38 ·

jhudson2 Copyright Martyr join:2000-11-07 San Marcos, CA	Re: Sue The Sun For Shining Splendora, Texas. Population 800. Heart of Bush Country. So poor and backward they don't even have SHIFT keys. "ye haw! ya dmn liberl bastard! we ignant and we like it!" Sigh. -- When a dog howls at the moon, we call it religion. When he barks at strangers, we call it patriotism. - Edward Abbey
	permalink · 2003-01-13 22:42:31 ·

ChrisXP United We Stand, Divided We Fall Premium join:2002-12-13 USA	Re: Sue The Sun For Shining said by jhudson2 : Splendora, Texas. Population 800. Heart of Bush Country. So poor and backward they don't even have SHIFT keys. "ye haw! ya dmn liberl bastard! we ignant and we like it!" Sigh. And you're the one talking about tolerance? CXP -- "It's not what you see that's suspect, but how you interpret what you see." ~~~ Isaac Asimov
	permalink · 2003-01-14 01:28:16 · Print ·

Naiirita
Lupus
Premium
join:2002-12-20
Splendora, TX

actully your information is a bit off. i beleive we are over 1000 people now. in the past year we almost doubled in size. the thing is, while you may live in a little in a little apartment or in a nice house on a lot, i live on 2 acres, behind by grandfathers 13 acres. most people around here have at least 5 acres some as many as 30. for the most its a small town and thats the way we like it. i can leave my door unlocked w/o fear of being robbed, can you? and i have never had to expierence a rolling black out or mudslide. a few hurricanes, but they are kinda fun. and we are very ignorant, out of the 187 graduating seniors, only 4 had an opertunity to go to mit. i know schools that have 800 graduating senoirs and none had a hope of going to mit. and we are what 20 min from houston, one of the largest cities in america? not exactly the back woods is it?
--
there are 10 kinds of ppl in the world, those that get binary, and those that dont.
[text was edited by author 2003-01-14 15:48:27]

permalink · 2003-01-14 15:37:27 · Print ·

Naiirita Lupus Premium join:2002-12-20 Splendora, TX	Re: Sue The Sun For Shining and to date, i have never said ye haw, howdy or pardner. i freely confess to saying yall since it is so useful a word. -- there are 10 kinds of ppl in the world, those that get binary, and those that dont.
	permalink · 2003-01-14 15:50:13 ·

njellis

join:2001-05-12
Glendora, CA

Being a resident of CA my whole life, I'd like to state that I disagree with CA being the Richest, AND the most Tolerant. There are several issues to discus, but I'll try to keep it within a million words

Californians are *FORCED* to be tolerant to some extent; how is this representative of a "representative democracy"? Example: Affirmative Action; FORCING Schools or Employers to higher or enroll people based on their Color/Ethnicity. That is in NO way representative of a representative democracy. It's representative of a socialist democracy.

I had a discussion the other pertaining to this idea: "Should the Government sponsor things such as Non-Smoking ads?" I think the answer to that is No. (Let me get to the point; and try to not over-complicate it) If the majority of people feel that you SHOULD be allowed to FREELY smoke as MUCH as you want, SO LONG AS it doesn't effect other people (in a reasonable facet). I'd venture to say the majority of people feel this same way, OR DID, UNTIL; the propaganda created by CA's NON-representative but Dictatorial "For the greater good" government.
-POINT BEING: Most Californians are "lead" like sheep (granted it's our fault, but none-the-less we have to have a leader to be lead; and the leader is leading how THEY(HE) see fit, not asking us how WE see fit) How are we Free when we're brainwashed by emotional, BUT illogical Ads and slogans?

Another Example: CA is the STRICTEST on Gun control. Most people in CA, after seeing enough commercials, SPONCERED by the California Republic, have been convinced "guns are bad". Cutting RIGHT to the point. Why does CA have the HIGHEST Crime-Rate per person in the country? I attribute it to the Gun control (but I shan't explain why, that's WAY off topic).

CA = Highest Crime/Person
CA = Highest Taxes (which are GOING UP AGAIN!!! from 8.75% sales tax to whatever it's going to now)
CA = the LEAST amount of Freedoms
CA = THE MOST LAWS
CA = Sit in the DMV for 8 hrs to have someone tell you "come back tomorrow"

And you say CA is the envy of the U.S.? Maybe in some facets, but CERTAINLY not all. I love my State, but I'm ashamed of many of the things that take place in it. So much so I've considered moving to Arizona, One of the last TRUELY FREE states.

You say CA is the Richest? I ask you why CA has a 35 BILLION dollar debt then.

[text was edited by author 2003-01-14 01:29:50]

permalink · 2003-01-14 00:38:46 · Print ·

Gray out davis

@167.21.x.x

Richest? Last I saw California is facing some of the largest budget deficits of any state in the country. True, a lot of wealthy people live in California. Question is, why? Entertainers live there, since that's where the entertainment industry is based. Most of the other people living their are their for the weather, or were born there. It's cold as hell here on the east coast today, and I don't hear anyone here clammering to go west.

With Mudslides, earthquakes, wildfires, and rolling blackouts in California I'm staying east. With 4 months of winter, we get it easy back here on the east coast.

permalink · 2003-01-14 14:41:24 · Print ·

NOVA_Guy
Obama- Commander in Thief
Premium
join:2002-03-05

·VOIPo

said by jhudson2 :
What they're doing in Berkelely, and elsewhere in "liberal" California is known as Representative Democracy.

No, what they're doing in Berkeley is called sheer lunacy. What happens throughout most of the state is sheer idiocy. Give away this, force acceptance of that, shove political "correctness" down this group's throat....

You can see the results of such short-sighted, myopic actions by looking at the energy crisis in California. During the past few decades, Californians were too busy screaming and shouting out against safe, efficient nuclear power plants to adequately plan for the growth of energy needs within their own society. If people had just done their homework and taken a rational, cost-benefit approach to things, they would have seen that the benefits of nuclear energy far outweigh any of the potential costs...

Another example can be shown in a number of the propositions that have passed on ballots out there... Discrimination based upon sexual orientation is illegal (the founding fathers NEVER would have seen that coming...); illegal aliens are given financial support and education, rather than being tossed back across the border where they came from; people wanted to legalize marijuana for "medicinal" use. Give me a break... Or, as former Congressman James Trafficant (D-OH) would say: Beam Me Up!

said by jhudson2 :
And to that extent, yes I do defend it. So should you if the values most Americans pay lip service to mean anything at all.

I am an American. I stand for traditional American values. I believe that a child should grow up in a family that has one mother and one father, not two mothers or two fathers. I believe that my tax money should not go to some illegal alien who shouldn't even be here in the first place. And I certainly don't think that they should be taking up valuable space in our schools.

said by jhudson2 :
And by the way, not only are we the most liberal State in the Union we're also the most tolerant and by far the richest.

That all depends upon how you want to look at things. Tolerant? Not by any stretch of the imagination; you've provided a few good examples in some of your posts in this thread. Now, if tolerance means forcing acceptance of everything down everyone's throats, then yes, I can rank some of the Californians I've met as among the most "tolerant" folks I care to ever come across.

Remember, being tolerant also means acknowledging that you have no right to belittle or berate others whose views are different than yours-- no matter how they differ. Tolerance doesn't just mean forcing everyone to accept each other; it also means respecting the views and opinions of those you disagree with. You haven't done that here at all...

said by jhudson2 :
I'm sorry, but I fail to see the problem that needs fixing here.

And that's just part of the problem as well.
--
Cox cable: the hallmark questionable business practices and lousy cable service!

permalink · 2003-01-14 16:33:11 · Print ·

jhudson2
Copyright Martyr

join:2000-11-07
San Marcos, CA

Re: Sue The Sun For Shining

In response to my simple comment about an irrational stereotype you assert:

- Those who don't vote as you do are stupid or insane.

- Discrimination based only on sexual preference is reasonable.

- Illegal aliens don't deserve medical attention.

- We should all be required to acknowledge your view of God.

I don't believe I stated my views on any of the above. It's kind of hard for me to "force" my beliefs upon you when I haven't even mentioned them.

I shudder to contemplate your reaction if I had actually dared to express an opinion contrary to yours.
--
When a dog howls at the moon, we call it religion. When he barks at strangers, we call it patriotism. - Edward Abbey

permalink · 2003-01-14 17:57:57 · Print ·

Naiirita
Lupus
Premium
join:2002-12-20
Splendora, TX

Re: Sue The Sun For Shining

in response:
as for voting, its not who u vote for, its the rules those u vote for come up with that make them stupid.

choosing to live an alterntive lifestyle is onething. DEMANDING that it be accepted and given special treatment is another.

illeagal aliens do deserve medical treatment, but not at MY expense.

and yes you have to acknowledge my view of god, just as i have to acknowledge your view of god. the senate starts it sessions with a prayer for a reason, but it is also a
non-denominational prayer for a reason.
--
there are 10 kinds of ppl in the world, those that get binary, and those that dont.

permalink · 2003-01-14 18:12:54 · Print ·

jhudson2
Copyright Martyr

join:2000-11-07
San Marcos, CA

Re: Sue The Sun For Shining

My view of God is that there isn't one.

By forcing me to say "under God" you are specifically NOT acknowledging my view, just as if I forced you to say "under NO God" would not be acknowledging your point of view.

The only way to accommodate both points of view (and the infinite range in between) is to simply say "one nation" and not force me or anyone else to submit to your alternative belief system. And if we really wanted to respect our American "values" we would throw the pledge out all together.

By stating otherwise you are clearly demanding that your particular alternative religious belief be accepted and given special treatment everywhere, even in places where you don't live and to the point of being forced on people you don't know.

To complete the intellectual contradiction you labor under you then demand the right to reject and regulate other people's lifestyle choices, again in places where you don't live and which are practiced by people you don't know.

This is unvarnished hypocrisy.
--
When a dog howls at the moon, we call it religion. When he barks at strangers, we call it patriotism. - Edward Abbey

permalink · 2003-01-14 19:20:49 · Print ·

njellis

join:2001-05-12
Glendora, CA

Re: Sue The Sun For Shining

Funny, I don't remember a SINGLE instance where someone was FORCED to say the pledge of allegiance. Nor do I remember anyone being FORCED to say "Under God".

It is YOUR decision to A: Exclude "Under God" from YOUR OWN pledge, I.E. remain silent during that part; or B: Not say the pledge of allegiance all together! Many people opt for B; and that's fine.

Its asinine to think, feel, or in any way elude to you being FORCED to say "under God" or the pledge at all.

It's..... I have no words or can imagine no possible WAY you could feel FORCED to do that in any way.
--
"When my Linux machine gives me the blue screen of death, I just wiggle my mouse to deactivate the screen saver"

permalink · 2003-01-14 19:43:44 · Print ·

Naiirita
Lupus
Premium
join:2002-12-20
Splendora, TX

u have a very us vs. them mentality.

my "alterntive belief" in a god as you call it is shared by an overwhealming majority of people. now if it said a specific god, your rebuttel would have more credence. as it is, the US Supreme Court has ruled that the pledge, with under god in it, is legal, as is the in god we trust on our currency.
the atheist are a extremly small but very vocal minority. and i do not make the laws. and if we where talking about adding under god, then also your point would have more credit, but it has been there for 50 years. and by removing it, it is you are is trying to force a change that is not wanted by many people. and once also this is a very off topic argument. and also a borderline religous one. there is no feasbile way to convince others of your point of view. i dont demand the right to regulate the lifestyles of others i reject the idea than a minority that choses an alternitive lifestyles has the rights to make demands on how and what the majority think. but yes i do demand the right to reject it as a lifestyle i dont agree with, just as u have the right to reject a particuler religion. i dont demand u accept my particuler denomanation as law. i dont demand any special privalages because of my denomination. ive dealt with a lot of californians. and they do live in there own little world. not that they are bad, and the people i talked to in san francisco where some of the most layed back people i have ever met and i loved it when i pulled the san francisco area to work in. but that dosent change the fact they live in their own little dream world. and whats worse, think their dream world is the norm, instead of an anomoly that it is.
--
there are 10 kinds of ppl in the world, those that get binary, and those that dont.

permalink · 2003-01-14 20:09:19 · Print ·

scottbradley join:2003-01-14 Fort Myers, FL	Well since you are so rich does that explain why you are the poorest state in the entire union with the highest budget debt? Maybe you should take some of that liberalism and try to pay the bills with it!!
	permalink · 2003-01-14 20:32:56 ·

AlexNYC join:2001-06-02 Edwards, CO	said by smokeyjon : And yes, there is plenty of wacky, irrational, other-world wrong-headed thinking over here on the East Coast...there's just none of it in my apartment Yes that's true ... here in New York some voted for Hillary Clinton!!! Talk about crazy ...
	permalink · 2003-01-14 15:29:33 · Print ·

NOVA_Guy
Obama- Commander in Thief
Premium
join:2002-03-05

·VOIPo

said by jhudson2 :
So your assertion is that regardless of the issue or facts a ruling from a California judge is automatically more likely to be overturned on appeal? Upon which stereotype are you basing this observation?

It's probably based upon historical records...

But seriously, you do have to admit that the folks in California generally are more liberal (socially speaking) than the rest of the country. That has led to some rather stupid, way-out rulings. You know-- like "...one nation under God..." not being allowed to be recited in the schools; welfare, health care, and education for illegal aliens; extreme enviroNazism; the list goes on and on...
--
Cox cable: the hallmark questionable business practices and lousy cable service!

permalink · 2003-01-14 16:09:30 · Print ·

jhudson2
Copyright Martyr

join:2000-11-07
San Marcos, CA

Re: Sue The Sun For Shining

Some parts of California are more liberal, notably the large urban areas like LA and San Francisco. But this is no different than any other part of the county. By virtue of the fact that the population of these areas is larger (marginally) than the rural or suburban parts of the state we have more Democratic and liberal elected officials.

Many areas, however, are quite conservative. Orange County (where I grew up) is hard-core Libertarian. San Diego County (where I live now) is equally hard-core Republican Conservative, due primarily to the large military presence. My wife's family is from the Central Valley, where Liberals are as scarce as Martians.

My original point (which unfortunately started this wildly off-topic thread) is that California is not a liberal paradise or whatever the popular stereotype currently in vogue east of the Colorado says about us.

It may be easier to lump all 38 million of us together into a small easy to digest fictional liberal commune but the other 49% of people in this State who count themselves as Conservatives might have a problem with that characterization.
--
When a dog howls at the moon, we call it religion. When he barks at strangers, we call it patriotism. - Edward Abbey

permalink · 2003-01-14 17:20:26 · Print ·

Naiirita Lupus Premium join:2002-12-20 Splendora, TX	Re: Sue The Sun For Shining its not all californians, just the ones in charge. california, the granola state.
	permalink · 2003-01-14 17:28:30 ·

smokeyjon
Life Is Overrated

join:2002-06-11
Germantown, MD

Naiirita: You aren't helping. "u" is not a proper noun, or even a word. If you want to argue a point like this, you need to speak properly. I can't for the life of me understand why people think that the Internet gives them license to be illiterate.

jhudson: Please understand the type of "tolerance" I speak of. Not the "I don't care if you are white/black/yellow/orange or straight/gay/trans or male/female" tolerance. There is nothing wrong with that tolerance...it is appropriate, correct, and necessary.

My problem is the brand of "tolerance" that PC advocates are attempting to force upon the rest of the world. For example, it is now "intolerant" and "offensive" to display Christian symbols, but it is "tolerant" to display any OTHER religious symbol.

It is currently "intolerant" to allow a Christian-themed club in public schools...however, it is "tolerant" to allow a Gay/Lesbian/Trans club in public schools.

Attempting to convene school on Dr. King's birthday, for any reason, is "intolerant". Even if those reasons might include mid-term exam schedules, or the need to make up lost time due weather-related closings or other locally necessitated closings.

It's even considered to be "intolerant and racist" to publicly dislike rap "music".

I can cite examples for any of the above that you wish. My point is, there is a fine line between tolerance and stupidity, and it has become both chic and the preferred method of character assassination to label dissenters and critics "intolerant".

permalink · 2003-01-13 23:34:52 · Print ·

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RadioDoc 58ef2c0 Premium,ExMod 2000-03 join:2000-05-11	What the hell does this have to do with the Kazaa lawsuit? We're done here.
	permalink · 2003-01-14 20:37:49 ·

David
No,there is another.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-05-30
Granite City, IL
clubs:

·DIRECTV

·magicjack.com

·AT&T Midwest

So what does this exactly mean??

It is not going to stop a soul from file swapping.

Something else I cannot figure out and tell me if I am right or not. I went into sam goody this weekend, a entertainment/music store. If they really wanted to stop p2p that they so fear, why do they allow stores like sam goody, blockbuster, wal-mart, and many other places you can buy cd's allow you to buy CDR's?

Essentially, they are giving end users the weapons to do it with, they need to figure out to either.

A.) make CD prices cheaper....
--> Best move by far

b.) raise the prices on CD burners
--> could be done but not likely.

c.) Stop all entertainment stores from carrying blank media, or make the media more expensive to obtain
--> could be done but not likely

So in essence they could try the other ideas, but with new computers already coming with CD burners one has to ask the question as to why do b or c?

Just a thought,

Beach boy.
--
11/02/01- The day I went into surgery. 1:45 P.M. the day I will never forget, life changed, forever. Today 11-2-02, Current weight 346.3, Total loss: 237.7, 18 inches less on my waist, noticing that I am 1/2 size? I wouldn't give this up for the world

permalink · 2003-01-13 11:20:48 · Print ·

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Go Chargers7
Fa Shizzle Ma Nizzle
Premium
join:2002-09-24
Huntington Beach, CA

No one here will notice

Well seeing as Davis has run the state into the ground and now is proposing massive tax increases including tripling DMV fees, another 1% hike in sales tax (would make LA 9.25%), higher wealth accumulation taxes, and new taxes on services including things like movie tickets, auto repair labor, shipping charges and lawyer fees...no one here is going to notice our beloved crazy courts running rough-shot over common sense once again.

I'll be the first to suggest than we in Cali martyr ourselves and sucede from the Union so that it may be saved.

The rest of you Go, RUN...SAVE YOURSELVES!.
--
Made in America; tested in Japan.

permalink · 2003-01-13 11:27:06 · Print ·

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cdgreer Hoosiers join:2002-01-03 Columbus, IN	Can the RIAA come out and play? The RIAA needs to adopt the old saying, "If you can't beat'em, join'em". They always have to do it different from everyone else, reminds me of my inlaws! -- Make a Joyful noise unto the Lord!
	permalink · 2003-01-13 11:42:05 ·

OH-58d @charterga.net from: pnh102	Read this recent CA Supreme Court decision »www.townhall.com/columnists/kath···13.shtml I'm just glad I'm not living in CA. If you are male be very scared! The courts in CA can be really stupid.
	permalink · 2003-01-13 13:01:20 ·

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

·AT&T Yahoo

·AT&T DSL Service

·Cox HSI

·AT&T Southwest

When it comes to copyright....

... the industry keeps expanding the war. This is yet another ruling in which a U.S. Court rules that it has "authority" over other countries, non-citizens, and companies in other countries.

One day this will bite us... when *other* countries decide OUR citizens and OUR companies and OUR country must submit to *their* laws.
--
"When the day comes that anyone can bend our country’s laws and lawmakers to serve selfish, competitive ends, that day democratic government dies" -- Preston Tucker, 1948 (Yep, it's dead.)

permalink · 2003-01-13 13:15:27 · Print ·

ross join:2000-08-16	Re: When it comes to copyright.... 100% CORRECT!! Can our collection of neofascist do-gooders get any farther out of hand?
	permalink · 2003-01-13 20:37:35 ·

IcyFire Flammable Ice join:2001-05-30 Somewhere	Whoopee do! Big deal.. Worse they can do is shut sharman down, the fasttrack network isn't gonna stop though, Oh they blocked the port? Pfft.. another version of kazaalite will fix that RIAA, please, stop snorting the funky white powder, it's not good for your health..
	permalink · 2003-01-13 13:19:41 ·

Raisepanic01 join:2003-01-10 Wenatchee, WA	Re: Whoopee do! LMAO
	permalink · 2003-01-14 04:05:27 ·

WASTMD$
The Masked Debater
Premium
join:2002-07-19
Pensacola, FL

w00t!!!!!111111111111

Even if all that happens is Kazaa gets shut down, that's still great. There are millions of people who steal only casually, and use Kazaa for it. Getting shut down, as I have complete faith the prosecution can do, will help stop a majority of thieves from stealing.

This will allow them to spend more time and effort dealing with USEnet, eDonkey, and the like, and pursue the more serious criminals, as most of the casual ones will have been stopped.

This is great news, to be sure.

permalink · 2003-01-13 13:24:36 ·

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freedonia

join:2002-03-13

What is a significant amount

"Given that Sharman's software has been downloaded more than 143 million times, it would be mere cavil to deny that Sharman engages in a significant amount of contact with California residents," Wilson wrote

I am wondering what a significant amount equals?

1% = 1.43 million
.01% = 143,000
.001% = 14,3000

Is 1/1,000th a significant amount?

Where did the judge get the numbers to say that out of the 143,000,000 downloaded copies (which may be exaggerated but unlikely) that a significant amount went to California? Couldn't the RIAA then sue all California residents for?

Someone correct my math if it is wrong.

Is 143,000,000 accurate? How many of those are updates? I don't think the Kazaa website, 'resets' the counter when a new version is released?

One more point, why don't judges speak in English? What does "mere cavil" mean?

permalink · 2003-01-13 13:58:00 · Print ·

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Sarge_0321

join:2002-06-27
San Diego, CA

Still waiting..

Still waiting for the day when the RIAA/MPAA (and associated industries) will develop a system where you can download FULL QUALITY music and video.

It would definitely be worthwhile.

Make it cheap enough I say.

And with files sizes being kind of large.. you could only download it with high speed internet (we have multi-meg connections with nothing much legal to download. Not talking about Linux ISOs).

And being cheap enough, you could tell your leeching friends to "GO GET YOUR OWN". The movies would be big enough (1 GIG or so like a DVD-rip) not easily fitting on a regular CD-R. So that should companies reduce file duplications and sharing. 1 GIG is a bitch to share on file sharing software with our current upload speeds.

With current download streams.. 1 GIG should NOT take very long to download (from an actual ISP). But from another user (ex. Kazaa User), it would take forever. And seeing how it would be cheap enough (maybe $2 or so), the average person could afford it.

The reason for the low price comes from the quality, restriction (in most cases) to viewing on computer, and the time it will take to download. If they want to charge anymore than that, people may prefer to opt for DVD rentals instead. So you have to make the online version attractive. That means.. make is cheap, available and FAST to download.

I tell you. If I could get mainstream media from a legit online source, I WOULD pay for it, and not share with other people. At $2 a pop for a movie, they can get their own. I'm not even the type to go to the movie theatre. I just don't care to blow my money that. But this would attract me.

For Audio files, they could be 50 cents to a dollar. You have to think of volume sales here. 50 cents doesn't sound like much. But that is for one song. Compare one song to a movie. Are you going to charge $1 for a 5 minute track and $2 for a full length movie? I don't think so.

So here maybe subscription services may be good as well.

The whole point is to make the media available. High quality, and the ability to download it quickly on our 1.5+ megabit downstream connections. Further maximizing the dollars we spend on our internet connections.

Is it that difficult?

Sarge

permalink · 2003-01-13 14:17:07 · Print ·

Wills

join:2001-01-03
Port Charlotte, FL

Re: Still waiting..

You ideas are good but not well thought out. What good is it to offer big downloads of movies a music when 90% of the ISP's are putting bandwidth limits in place?

You have the RIAA stopping file trading, and ISP's putting bandwidth limitations in place at the same time.

I'm sorry, but it's time for government interjection, moderation, and legislation.

Look what we have caused when left to ourselves...we have, in usual human form, ruined everything.
--
Abit VP-6 twin 800EB's @ 1002 Mhz.Proud member of the XDC.

permalink · 2003-01-13 16:54:44 · Print ·

martissimo

join:2001-12-01
Las Vegas, NV
clubs:

bizzare

the California Supreme court had just decided only 2 months ago that they couldnt prosecute a guy from Texas for distributing DeCSS over the net, and that he would have to be tried in Texas if they wanted to bring a case.

Now they want to try to sue a company from another country in their courts, guess the juridstiction is (extremely) flexible all of a sudden, what a mess of legal precedence they are going for... the US Supreme Court may have backed out of the first case after thinking about it, but if we come up with conflicting precedents they may very well have no choice but to get involved.

The last line of that second article is hilarious btw, Dow Jones was found to be able to be sued for Libel in Australia over websites hosted here but viewed there, but the US courts basically said poppycock to that. Whats good for the goose is not so good for the gander i suppose, so many legal contradictions in this whole thing, what a total mess

permalink · 2003-01-13 14:57:46 · Print ·

plk
bo may sleep in loft
Premium
join:2002-04-20
Ogden, IA

I think I read a 10% loss this year

I think I read that the music industry has seen a 10% decrease in sales. If this is true it isn't all that much in this economy. I think these people are trying to claim each download is a sale loss. Please! I will bet that 85% of the downloads would have NOT been purchased in the first place.
With the money they save on Lawyer fees and the music stores cut, they could make downloads a nickel each and double their money.
But oh no, they probably want 3 bucks each and still cut out the music store.
The musicians need to form a union, buy the music industry, and start doing it them self. This way the next generation of musicians can keep more of their money and cut the fat cats out of the picture.
Put all music on a single service, charge a five dollar server fee per year and a nickel a song.
This sounds too cheap, but you have to figure no more music store in the middle, no more shipping, packaging etc. No more Lawyer fees, no one paid too much for the pretty picture on the cover, no more copyright problems because it is cheap, no big deal to loose a CD, not enough hard drive space, delete some, want to listen again, pay a nickel again. Want lyrics, cost another nickel. Want to see the video, 15 cents.
I don't really listen to music much and I have not spent a penny in a music store in 10 years. No way I would pay 5 bucks for a CD let alone 15 bucks.
But for 5 bucks a year, I would pay just in case I wanted it if I actually downloaded or not. So maybe some of us older folks would download a few old songs which in some cases are out of print. I guess that makes me a new customer.
With all these factors considered, seems to me the industry needed to shift gears and get with the future. They will never ever stop it any other way. No one can beat a hand full of 16 year olds on a mission to beat encryption. If you can play it, you can record it.

permalink · 2003-01-13 15:06:36 · Print ·

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Kaltes
Premium
join:2002-12-04
Los Angeles, CA

Zero Enforcement

Any ruling in california is pointless. Kazaa has no contacts with CA or presence in CA except for the fact that its software gets downloaded here.

The judge cannot stop the downloading of Kazaa in california, and no judgment he rendered would ever be enforcable if taken to another country.

Imagine this: "Hey Mr. Judge in another country, a judge in my country says that this Kazaa thing is bad and that you should shut it down and force it to pay us all its money."

hahahah

permalink · 2003-01-13 17:50:58 ·

Spectral
Hates Acl's
Premium
join:2002-05-03
Silverton, OR
clubs:

Re: Zero Enforcement

A little late but in regards to the 9th circuit and Cali courts.

"The federal appeals court in San Francisco that found the Pledge of Allegiance unconstitutional Wednesday is known as an activist court whose decisions regularly are overturned by the U.S. Supreme Court, legal analysts said yesterday"
.......in 1996-97, the Supreme Court issued opinions in nearly 90 cases. "It reversed 27 of the 28 rulings it got from the 9th Circuit, and 17 times, the reversals were unanimous,"

»www.washtimes.com/national/20020···9426.htm
--
"FlyingThere is an art, or rather a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."~Douglas Adams

permalink · 2003-01-13 20:20:57 · Print ·

ross

join:2000-08-16

·Digizip

Re: Zero Enforcement

Doesn't mean the U.S. Supreme Court is correct. I remember a little Supreme arrogance down in Florida not too long ago.

Conservative forces have seized power in this country and have changed the nature and quality of judicial revue. District Attorneys are reaching beyond what our Constitution permits in conduct and prosecutions. In the case of international law, neither the California Supreme Court, nor the Federal Supreme Court, in most cases, have jurisdiction. These are matters which are the purview of the U.S. Congress and the Department of State (read Executive Branch), as Bush has made all too clear lately.

In the Kazaa case, California is over-reaching if they believe they can regulate economic intercourse outside the State's boundary. If they believe they can manufacture and sustain the kind of "Orrin Hatchian" expurgated internet they have in Pennsylvania, they are sorely mistaken. I believe that while the California courts may thunder, make great pronouncements and mutter amongst themselves, NO ONE outside California is going to give a good God Damn.

permalink · 2003-01-13 21:43:37 · Print ·

russotto join:2000-10-05 Collegeville, PA	This means nothing. The California courts tried the same thing in the Pavlovich (CA DVD trade secret case being prosecuted against a Texan) and were eventually slapped down. Besides, as the original poster pointed out, they can't enforce a judgement even if they don't get the jurisdictional slapdown.
	permalink · 2003-01-14 11:38:51 ·

Dave Crocker join:2001-12-15 Arlington, TX	They will never stop P2P The lawyers are facing a battle that they can never win. If they shutdown KaZaa, then another service will pop up to take its place. Their tactics of intimidation and bluster will not succeed. They are wasting their time and their clients money. P2P will not be stopped.
	permalink · 2003-01-13 20:08:42 ·

tomkb Premium join:2000-11-15 Avon, OH clubs:	Re: They will never stop P2P Lawyers win whether they win or loose so that's good news for lawyers. -- clenetworks.net
	permalink · 2003-01-13 21:06:06 ·

What1 @12.242.x.x	Re: They will never stop P2P I really hope that the judge isn't of Asian descent. That would be an embarrassing headline, no?
	permalink · 2003-01-13 21:12:22 ·

AquaVita Premium join:2003-01-14 Garland, TX	I hope this doesn't go through....I find it hard to believe that this would hold up. How can they enforce US laws overseas?
	permalink · 2003-01-14 14:19:01 ·

Q @lb-cres.charterpipel	Don't worry be happy If Kazaa ever be shut down, there will be thousands of P2P programs that would sawn from it. Or maybe it's time for people to buy, instead of "illegally" downloading it from some one else.
	permalink · 2003-01-13 23:26:06 ·

OC256Busta join:2002-10-25 Houston, TX	Re: Don't worry be happy What!?!? And actually BUY music and videos?? I doubt that will happen. At least i hope it wont.
	permalink · 2003-01-15 10:38:18 ·

BosstonesOwn

join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:

·Comcast

Enough is a Enough

Thats it damn you all. I'm copyrighting the alphabet and each and every one of you people owe me money for theft of the letters.

Damn and when used in words you can run up quite a tab.

Not bright but hey if the riaa can do it with words in the language why can't i do it with letters. I want my paychecks now or i will see all of you people and the music industry in court think of all the money i will have and every thing you think of with a letter in it will be mine.

ALL MINE .......

This idiotic post was brought to you by the letters K M A and R And can you guess what that stand for

the last stand for RIAA

permalink · 2003-01-13 23:45:27 · Print ·

Spike401 Fox Powered join:2002-04-27 Labrador	Re: Enough is a Enough Try it, they managed to patent the genome. -- Back On 33.6K Dialup - Persona Cable Sucks!
	permalink · 2003-01-14 06:57:41 ·

OC256Busta join:2002-10-25 Houston, TX	National Debt Well Well Well, You see the government always complaining about how they are 5trillion dollars in debt. Now i see why, they are just "wasting there money" on things like this.
	permalink · 2003-01-14 10:15:32 ·

e97006 @involved.com	Re: National Debt Well said, there's no more to be said on that.......
	permalink · 2003-01-14 10:49:49 ·

Fishie

join:2003-01-14
Riverside, CA

Low Level Judge

The judgment was made by a "low level" judge. That ruling will have a VERY LONG, SLOW climb to the top. Then, they will have to figure out how to implement the judgment. After all, Microsoft is still one WHOLE company.

It will never fly. Just because over 140 million people have downloaded it doesn't mean they all/most live in California. It also doesn't mean that California is targeted because 140 million people have downloaded it. It's just a scam to get Sharman Networks to waste their money in courts. Remember Bleem?

California is alright. Smog content is just as high or higher in other places. The thing I love the most is the weather.

Since I do live in California, I feel that I can even tell a joke about it: California is a lot like cereal. Once you take out the fruits and nuts, all you have left are the flakes!

)

So go ahead and bash my state. Every state is ran by flawed beings which means that every state has their flaws. This is the same for countries, planets, solar systems, galaxies, universes, and dimensions.

SO take care and I wouldn't worry about this ruling at all. BTW, I'm a nut!

permalink · 2003-01-14 14:24:28 · Print ·

VerizonvsRIAA

@cox.net

Back to the Point!

I think they we all strayed away from the real issue. The discussion is talking about Kazaa and the jurisdiction of the California Courts. I really believe that Kazaa has nothing to worry about because even if the courts come up with a judgement on Kazaa, the country or countries were they are based will not enforce it. If they are ordered to pay or shut down..remember that the networks and their operations are not in the United States and it will be very diffucult for the US to get their governement and courts to enforce it. Vanuatu courts have acutally helped Kazaa against the courts of California because the California courts ruled that Kazaa has to turn over its programming records of its software to the courts, but the Vanuatu courts over turned that decision and informed the US Courts that Kazaa did not have to turn over its records. The fact of the matter is the RIAA is going to have to invest lots and lots of money in this process because they are not going to really get anywhere. They have so many hurddles to go through and basically they better be ready for the investment. Because there are going to be a lot of road blocks ahead. Kazaa will prevail!

permalink · 2003-01-14 19:25:35 · Print ·

your comment..

Forums » A Chink in Kazaa's Armor?

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BS

Re: BS

The RIAA

Re: The RIAA

Re: The RIAA

Sue The Sun For Shining

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Re: Sue The Sun For Shining

Re: Sue The Sun For Shining

So what does this exactly mean??

No one here will notice

Can the RIAA come out and play?

Read this recent CA Supreme Court decision

When it comes to copyright....

Re: When it comes to copyright....

Whoopee do!

Re: Whoopee do!

w00t!!!!!111111111111

What is a significant amount

Still waiting..

Re: Still waiting..

bizzare

I think I read a 10% loss this year

Zero Enforcement

Re: Zero Enforcement

Re: Zero Enforcement

They will never stop P2P

Re: They will never stop P2P

Re: They will never stop P2P

Don't worry be happy

Re: Don't worry be happy

Enough is a Enough

Re: Enough is a Enough

National Debt

Re: National Debt

Low Level Judge

Back to the Point!