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Comments on news posted 2002-12-06 19:47:43: Apparently an organizational shift has occurred within the ranks at BellSouth, and the new management no longer approves of some technicians offering support in our BellSouth forum. ..
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Skipperoo
@tn.d
| Ya know... At first I was pretty annoyed at Bellsouth's decision.
Then I thought about the fact that they are consistently
at the top of the list as far as quality in the reviews
here, but the only stories posted on this site bash them
as a big bad RBOC monopoly, while glorifying the
competition no matter how poor their service, nor how
happy their customers are with them.
The clec bias get old...
If I was them I would probably steer clear too. | |
| | bkjohnson
Premium
join:2002-05-22
Birmingham, AL
| Could this be a way to charge more for networking? What disappointment! I've really been happy with my Bellsouth DSL, thanks in large part to the "education" and problem solving I've read in the DSL reports Bellsouth Forum. It's been helpful to read of the experiences of others just to obtain general knowledge. Could this have anything to do with wanting to charge for having more than one computer connected at a time? I'm not optimistic about having to use Bellsouth support. The person whom I first talked to at Bellsouth when I wanted to place my order did not know that ethernet modems existed and insisted that usb was the only thing available. When I called Bellsouth Tech Support with basic startup questions, they referred me to the Bellsouth forum at DSL reports. Where else will we learn of tweaks, the availability of equipment that differs from our own, such as Westell modems vs Alcatel, etc. | |
|
Strykerkjs
@buckeye-express.com
| In Management's Defence I don't mean to play devils advocate here, but I would imagine that this is all happening to avoid the possiblity of lawsuits. Lets say that JoeBob from "Company X" is giving some support in one of these forums. Let's also say that JoeBob identifies himself as a "Company X" employee in the forum. If gives some bad advice in the forum, "Company X" could be held liable for it, and may even get sued if this bad advice causes problems with someone's computer. It doesn't seem like management is just trying to cover their own butts, but rather they are looking out for the best interest of the company. That being said, I think they are going about it the wrong way. Let the technician post, but have a policy in place forcing JoeBob to state something like "This post does not necessarily reflect the opinion of Company X" at the end of any tech support posts. That way, the readers get the support without "Company X" being held liable for any bad advice or support. | |
|
Hiding
@bellsouth.net
| Thats fine.. You will still see us techs around - We just can't indentify ourselves or do anything supportive for the customer. Typical Bellsouth corporate rubbish.
We can still help as we are still in the know  | |
| | 
some guy$
Mommy What's Irony?
join:2002-11-08
Manitowoc, WI
| Re: Thats fine.. seriously how would they know anyway? It would be very difficult to pinpoint who said what. Unless dslreports gave out the users IP addresses or they used a recognizable email account (just get one from lycos or whatnot) there is no legal way to prove you are their employee--plus what you do on your own time is none of their damn business.
Oh no! The customers are getting decent service and we aren't getting the credit! I don't understand the "liability" arguement--the customers will be more disgruntled with a nonfunctioning product than anything else. At least the forum techs are trying something, other than rehashing the form that was mailed with the dsl modem that the customer has read and reread 17 times already. | |
| 
kmac1
Off in new directions
Premium,VIP
join:2001-06-07
Port Neches, TX
|  From one Tech to another
First of all I just want to salute you guys on what you've done for your customers. Being in the same situation, I know that whether or nor your company realizes it or not, your help HAS made a difference. I salute you and all you've done!
I know it can be difficult, walking on a fine grey line, but at the same time rewarding.
It's my belief that whether or not the ISPs and/or broadband believe it, tech support WILL be changing to reflect the new ways customers are able to get information. Customers are responding to "old-style" tech support, where you deal one-on-one, "face-to-face" with a support agent instead of a drone at the end of a long hold on a phone queue.
I hope that your management will see their error and change their minds about the support your Team offered. Till then, take care and protect yourselves and your jobs.
Ken
SBC Online Support
--
Put your spare CPU cycles to WORK! Join the BBR DC Teams and join in on helping helping find ET or cures for diseases. SETI and Team Helix. Join in on the fun! | |
| 
heavyeddie
Premium
join:2002-06-06
North Olmsted, OH
| My two pennies... Let me start out by saying I think this is a huge mistake by BellSouth... Now a few of my comments.
Management...
I've always disliked the "Management" statements. I'm sure BellSouth has several reasons they think this is a prudent move. As someone who works for a large company in an IT capacity we often get what we think are idiotic decisions made by "Management". Normally in discussion they have what they think are very valid reasons for their decisions and aren't just trying to protect their butts. Is it possible that some of their internal Policies or Procedures are being circumvented?
Technicians...
I've really just joined this site and started participating as a member. In that time I have been in contact with users and Technicians that really know their stuff and I have benefited from it greatly. I have to admit I was blown away when I found SBC had techs working this forum on an official capacity. Then I thought about the benefits that they must gain from this:
o Techs can pinpoint possible issues before they arise.
o Techs can communicate with a community of knowledgeable customers who also can help users.
o Techs can benefit by participating with other techs from other companies and decrease possible learning curves with new technologies.
o Communication with the customers tend to be more clear and concise since most of it is written.
o Most issues seem to be handled on the "First Call" which is always a help desk measure.
o I’ve certainly gained a certain amount of customer loyalty because of the techs that I have been in contact with. I would actually pay a few dollars more a month just to know this type of support is there.
o I’m willing to bet these techs check these forums on their own time too… That shows a level of “Support Culture” that is hard to create and normally only comes with a sense of community.
Money…
All of the reasons aren’t just soft. I would think they transfer quite easily into savings to the company when it comes to Maintenance ROI and Customer satisfaction / loyalty.
Conclusion…
I’m very glad SBC hasn’t adopted this stance and will remain a customer because of it. I also hope it can stay that way, but this can only happen by building Real, Logical arguments and not blanket statements about “Management”.
Thanks
Heavy
P.S. No, I’m not a member of a management team | |
|
anon_duh
@97.charter-st
| seems simple enough.... why not anon? it would be nice to see bbr find some way of anonymizing (sp?) their forums, or perhaps only the forums relating to the companies taking such action...
might want to make sure the anon code is offshore tho 
but seriously, it seems like a good enough solution since it sticks it to the evil corps, protects the generous techs, and helps the consumer all at the same time... | |
|
Tired and Leaving
@mindspring.com
| Welcome to the US: Get Down on your Knees or Die! Corporations don't give a damn about the people who depend on them for services and employment, because the people who own and manage them don't care. This stuff about liability concerns is just a convenient premise to hide those individuals lack of human decency. And employees who blindly follow orders are just as responsible.
I've paid some pretty heavy personal and professional prices for speaking out about bad and dishonest practices. And I am a mild-mannered, polite Canadian "guest" who came to live and work in the US 4 years ago.
None of this is terribly surprising. I've worked as a Senior Engineer for a couple of big US tech companies. After my experience here, I'm actively looking to go back to Canada or possibly the EU. Sure, the money is better in the US, but it's just not worth it. The unpleasant attitudes and behaviour of most managers and many of my co-workers still shocks me. Aggressive, cowardly, undermining and back-stabbing, selfish, racist & bigoted, greedy, uncaring, arrogant, and often stupid and incompetent. Am I describing your so-called president or the country as a whole?? Well, you decide. In my view, though, the current devolution of the US into a war-mongering corporate police state is directly connected to the abusive, bullying behaviour of so many individuals. It's all connected. You do see that, don't you?
The little day to day choices of indivduals add up to what we call "society" and all those other concepts. Institutions are made up of people.
If you can accept my critique and do a little soul-searching, there's still hope. If not, well...you know how it goes. "We were just following orders" didn't work for the Germans in the 1930's and 1940's and I doubt it's going to work too well this time around.
A little courage goes long way. | |
| | mitska
join:2001-12-25
Sarasota, FL
 ·Comcast
| Re: Welcome to the US: Get Down on your Knees or Die! Well, I have traveled around the world a few times in my work, and I would say to "tired and leaving" just this, I have found wherever I go, people are basically the same. They love their families and wish to be healthy and safe.
However, aside from these normal "just plain folks", there are ALWAYS assholes, period no exceptions. Ironically both my best friend and one of the worst assholes I ever worked with are both Canadian. Go figure. All I'm saying is that it seems like you are judging the USA based on seeing an extremely limited variety of people. | |
| mikesama
join:2002-12-07
Newark, CA
|  Of course they're nixing it
Our tech support was pretty good when I signed on our manager had done technical support for netcom and had been promoted. He was hired on as the manager and didn't look to closely at the time to complete calls that the phone system spat out every week.
We only had two places with bad support stats and both were the problem of the local Cable provider (we were subcontracted to do cable modems.) One place had underground lines that were three feet below the local water table, and they wondered why they had problems.
Our support became sh%# when they got us a new manager who had "managed a high volume call center", which meant that he had managed a telemarketrs phone force.
Needless to say tech support went downhill fast and when I was laid off the company had 2 months left before it closed it's doors.
The Moral: Always trust managment to F%^k it all up. | |
| 
NickD
Premium
join:2000-11-17
Princeton Junction, NJ
clubs:
·Comcast
| This is the future Internet tech support is the future for all companies. Why can't they jump on the bandwagon and let their employees provide tech support. They should state in their sigs that the post reflects my opinion and not my company's opinion. One rotten apple is all it takes for ISPs to stop offering free tech support online.
On Slashdot, people mentioned about the possibility that the employee will demand overtime pay for helping in the forums. The company could have a policy that no overtime pay will be granted for official support made during an employee's spare time off the job.
The managers who forbid the employees from giving out free tech support are just screwing the whole company out of the potential extra revenue. Soon, when other ISPs offer Internet tech support, and more competetion becomes available, the managers will wonder why their ISP has less customers. The difference between the OOL forum and the Comcast forum is that OOL users are more satisfied with the service than Comcast customers, because OOL encourages techs to post here, and Comcast forbids that practice.
The bottom line of my post is that ISPs should allow techs to help if they want to because it will boost their reputation. Once their reputation becomes great, a rotten apple will not ruin the reputation of the company because the customers will remember how helpful the other techs were.
--
Crunch for Team Starfire!
Pepsi GOOD/Coke BAD | |
| | Galactica4
join:2001-12-08
Lake City, FL
| My finger goes up to BellSouth and other Corps ali
I SAH LOOT with my 1 finger (gee which one) to BellSouth and other Large ISP's and other Corps that think alike. | |
| intelligent2
join:2002-12-09
australia
| Oh, so you would let everyone make company policy? This is simply a way of stopping every tom, dickhead and larriet in the company from making possibly incorrect public statements on behalf of the company in public forums. If they mislead a few customers over the phone they can get stopped before TOO much damage is done. If they post a statement of company policy on the 'Net - then you will have thousands read it before a retraction/correction can be made (which still may not get read by all before they pass it on - on other forums - and grow it into something huge).
It is sensible and responsible company management that stupid users will probably NEVER understand, including, by the look of it, the really biased author of the article/editorial. | |
|
BBVeteran
@attbi.com
| Techs or Imposters? Of course the ISPs can't allow their employees to post here officially. What is to stop imposters from posting "official" things that are false?
I cannot tell you how many times I have seen posts by people claiming to be employees that were completely bogus. Most ISPs have their own forums where regular users cannot impersonate employees and spread misinformation. Why should they be obligated to participate in some third party's web forum?
Take these forums for what they are - a place for people to vent about their ISP when they have nothing better to do. If you really wanted help, you'd be calling your provider. | |
|
AVataRR
@com.au | HARLO :D When I grow up, all tech support in my company will be done on the boards. | |
| zmanchu7
join:2002-03-30
Beverly Hills, CA
| the real problem well, there is obviously a difference when dealing with one person and when dealing with many people. You can talk to one person and explain how things are for their particular context. Dealing with many people however requires a certain degree of spin towards the company line. We have all seen semicoherent emails and chat sessions from some tech support reps, and they can be an embarassment. Frankly, tech support jobs are either entry level jobs or second tier jobs, and the people good at what they do will advance (or that used to be the case, before the telecom fall). When you have reps posting to public forums, acting as a representative of a company, people assume that they are acting as a spokesman for the company, and that simply is not the case. I guess the biggest problem is that it can be an uncontrolled distribution of information. For instance a rep may give an individual customer an outside solution it it fits better with what that customer needs. Companywise however, that would be bad, and having that posted in a public forum would be worse. | |
|
goldcom
@popsite.net
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I can see their point though....
