bistro777
Donuts-Is There Anything They Can't Do?
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Englewood, CO
| German History
As appalling a corporate history as Bertlesmann had during Hitler’s reign, the current management of the company is too young to have had anything to do with it. And post-war Germans, for the most part, are very sensitive about not repeating their elders' trip into tyranny.
Bertlesmann is only the tip of the iceberg. You'll recognize these companies - - - Ford Werke (Ford Motor Company); Opel (General Motors); Audi; BMW: Daimler-Benz; Siemens; Leica; Volkswagon; Bayer; Farben; Krupp; Dresdener Bank; Deutsche Bank; and others.
One example: Ford Motor Company and Ford Werke A.G - Ford Motor Company (USA) owned from 55 to 90% of the shares of its subsidiary Ford Werke A.G. during 1933 to 1945. Edsel Ford served as a director of the German subsidiary throughout the Third Reich’s history, even after WWII started. Unlike most American operations in Germany, Ford was not taken over by the German government during the war. Henry Ford, on his 75th birthday in 1938, was awarded by Hitler the "Great Cross of the German Order of the Eagle" for his contributions to the Thousand Year Reich. And guess what? Slave labor was used extensively by Ford Werke. That's just one appalling example of "makin' a buck" regardless of all else...including basic human decency.
There is a $4.5 billion fund in Germany for payments to victims of corporate slavery - more than 6,000 companies are involved in this!!! And before you say “that’s a lot of money,” consider (1) Estimates of slave labor for Germany in WWII range from 8 to 12 million people; (2) There are maybe 1/10 of them alive today; and (3) Those who were held in camps or ghettos are entitled to about $7,000, and those forced to work in factories will be eligible for $2,200. Wow, huh?
Anyone can count the seeds in an apple; no one can count the apples in a seed.
[text was edited by author 2002-10-10 15:55:59] |
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Roundel
Blau Und Weiss
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Westport, CT
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| I agree tottaly with you, Almost every German company had a relationship with the Nazis. Volkswagen AG has already paid millions upon millions of dollars to familes and victims, Almost every company has done the same thing, every German company has had the same history has Bertelsmann has had, But as Bistro said, This is whole new generation of Germans, they realsise the awful mistake that their parents and grand parents made, and they are sure to take the consequences for them. This is a dfferent people now.
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Subaru
1-3-2-4
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Greenwich, CT
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|  reading the Fourms at Yahoo..
Man talk about racist comments..
Anyway.. yeah On SpeedVision like last year or so Hittler had the guy from Porsche make Volkswagen's (The people's car) and they showed all kind of stuff.. So I would think that their where alot of people they where "Forced" into doing what Hittler wanted.
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bistro777
Donuts-Is There Anything They Can't Do?
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Englewood, CO
| reply to Roundel
Re: German History
I think one of the most onerous instances involves an American corporation – IBM. (See Edwin Black's book "IBM and the Holocaust: The Strategic Alliance Between Nazi Germany and America's Most Powerful Corporation.")
Mr. Black alleges that IBM maintained a strategic alliance with the Third Reich (with its Hollerith punch-card machine) in which IBM licensed, maintained and custom-designed its products for use in the machinery of the Holocaust, up to and including the task of cataloguing and dispatching their millions of victims. IBM allegedly did more than just sell equipment: It controlled the monopoly on the cards and the technology. And they were the ones that had to custom-design all the forms and punch cards, including everything form counting Jews, to coordinating trains going into death camps, to the extermination by labor campaign. (See »www.edwinblack.com/index.html for more info.)
I lived with a German family in the late 60s on an exchange program, attended German high school and later studied at the University of Bonn. (My father and his siblings, who'd fought their way across Europe less than 25 years earlier, were a bit uncomfortable with the thought of "living with the enemy.") So one thing I did was make it a point to visit a number of the camps, both in then-West Germany and the East Bloc, in an attempt to understand my host country and its recent history and culture. From the elders there was a lot of “We didn’t know” or “What could we do?” But from the post-war generation there was generally outrage and shame at what their parents had been a part of, and a firm resolve not to repeat history.
Do the right thing because it’s the right thing to do. - - - W. Clement Stone |
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93254336
Weapons Of Masturbation
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join:2001-10-20
| .
I think the point here is not that Bertelsmann was involved in the production and distribution anti-Semitic propaganda during the Nazi era, nor the use of Jewish slave laborers. As was pointed out earlier in this thread, most German companies were complicit with the Nazi regime (some more than others).
The issue is that Bertelsmann didn't admit their past misdeeds; in fact they actively attempted to obfuscate their involvement. As was seen previously with several Swiss banks, this approach invariably backfires, causing more of a public relations nightmare than if they simply "came clean."
- Dan |
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skatetech
Aka Dillhole
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join:2002-07-31
Louisville, KY
| I have to say I agree with most everything you said Bistro. (BTW thank you for so many interesting facts) But Dan makes a very valid point. If you do not admit guilt, then you have not truly had any form of an "apology". But if you go and make fabrications then you have stepped in a different realm completely. I am not sure exactly how I feel in the end, but thank you both for the insight. |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
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| reply to bistro777
Re: German History
It is in the past, and is done. While it may prove enlightening to reveal hidden historical facts, it shouldn't be used as ammunition for those who want to to exact some sort of "punishment" or revenge TODAY. That would serve nobody's interest.
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"When the day comes that anyone can bend our country’s laws and lawmakers to serve selfish, competitive ends, that day democratic government dies" -- Preston Tucker, 1948 (Yep, it's dead.) |
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KrK
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| reply to Subaru
Re: reading the Fourms at Yahoo..
said by Subaru  :
Man talk about racist comments...
Where? Yours, you mean? First one I saw....
I'll read down some more and look for some.
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"When the day comes that anyone can bend our country’s laws and lawmakers to serve selfish, competitive ends, that day democratic government dies" -- Preston Tucker, 1948 (Yep, it's dead.) |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
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Re: .
Agreed. This is why I don't mind the truth being exposed and think it's helpful.... but I am opposed to "revising" the truth or re-writing history... and, to use past misdeeds to foster injustice today.
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"When the day comes that anyone can bend our country’s laws and lawmakers to serve selfish, competitive ends, that day democratic government dies" -- Preston Tucker, 1948 (Yep, it's dead.) |
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Subaru
1-3-2-4
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join:2001-05-31
Greenwich, CT
clubs: | reply to Subaru
Re: reading the Fourms at Yahoo..
Check around the 40th post or so. |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
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| said by Subaru :
Check around the 40th post or so.
Currently, there is only 10.... where? |
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Subaru
1-3-2-4
Premium
join:2001-05-31
Greenwich, CT
clubs: | reply to Subaru
you have to click on "First" to start at the first post.. Unless they deleted it.. |
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ExtreemDSL
join:2002-10-03
t29234 | $$$$$$$$$ allways the same $$$$$$$$$$
My god another case of that lot looking for money. |
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c0mmander
join:2001-10-03 | Bertlesmann is still MP3 nazi.
no soup for you! |
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bistro777
Donuts-Is There Anything They Can't Do?
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join:2002-02-07
Englewood, CO
| reply to KrK
Re: German History
We all know the quote by George Santayana – “Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” And Norman Cousins wrote “History is a vast early warning system.” My point was that greed and avarice are as old as the business world. What we’ve seen recently with companies like Global Crossing, WorldCom, Enron, Qwest ad nauseaum is simply a continuing pattern of business “leaders” putting the almighty dollar above all else, including integrity and morality.
My posts were not, as perhaps inferred, to be used as “ammunition for those who want to exact some sort of ‘punishment’ or revenge TODAY.” There is, for example, a difference between the movement for “reparations” from US companies to the descendents of slaves and the German fund that is being paid directly to those who suffered. And I would hardly call that revenge. My Dad liberated one of those camps in WWII, and I have walked through several in both Germany and Poland. A more sobering sight you’ll never see.
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." - - Aldous Huxley |
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bistro777
Donuts-Is There Anything They Can't Do?
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| reply to skatetech
...
I think a lot of this grew from the “de-Nazification” of German companies in the late 40s and early 50s. They were clamoring to be cleared so as to participate in the Marshall Plan, to sell to the occupying armies, and to not be left in the dust during the rebuilding of the German economy. So lies and mistruths for clearances – we were “good Germans” - became gospel in corporate annals until researchers unveiled what some companies did during the Third Reich.
I agree corporations with that kind of sordid past tend to (1) sincerely wish it’d never happened and (2) hope to keep it secret. After all, the execs dealing with the bad press today, with few exceptions, were infants or not even born when those atrocities occurred. Nonetheless, as Dan wrote, they should be “man enough” (pardon the gender bias) to stand up to the truth of the matter, for obfuscation only makes them look much worse.
“History is simply one damned thing after another.” - - Winston Churchill |
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keith2468
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-03
Winnipeg, MB
| The original report is here
Note that Bertelsman commissioned the study itself using independant historians.
Here is the original Reuters article:
»www.reuters.com/news_article.jht···=1544000
Here is the original IHC report:
»www.uhkommission.de/uhk_englisch.htm
- click results
Here are the members of the IHC:
»www.uhkommission.de/Englisch/com···#Members |
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keith2468
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join:2001-02-03
Winnipeg, MB | reply to bistro777
Re: German History
So are Ford and IBM paying reparations to forced labourers too? |
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keith2468
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join:2001-02-03
Winnipeg, MB | reply to 93254336
Re: .
Bertelsmann commissioned the study. |
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skatetech
Aka Dillhole
Premium
join:2002-07-31
Louisville, KY
| reply to bistro777
...
Again, very good rationale. Placing myself in that position, I woul also sincerely wish it had not happened, and hope to have it remain undiscovered. Then there is the part of me (possibly biggest part) that agrees with Elie Wiesel's stance that indifference is worse than perpetration. A very morally trying situation. Thanks for more insight.
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skate technical... |
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