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Comments on news posted 2012-10-16 09:28:21: A new report by the Hudson Institute (pdf) declares that the United States is facing a growing broadband gap when it comes to rural markets, and that improving these markets would improve the economic health of the country as a whole. ..

page: 1 · 2 · 3
AuthorAll Replies


battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000

Simple Solution

Give WISPs what they need. The need spectrum and decent power to overcome line of sight problems.

Then prevent AT&T, Verizon, Sprint, etc from obtaining this spectrum so they can't squat on it.
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.


BF69
Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN

said by battleop:

Give WISPs what they need. The need spectrum and decent power to overcome line of sight problems.

Then prevent AT&T, Verizon, Sprint, etc from obtaining this spectrum so they can't squat on it.

Give? more free government handouts? There aren't any WISP near me so how does you solution help people in my area that can't get cable DSL?

Also the only ones that were squatting on spectrum were the cable companies. The finally sold that to Verizon which will actually use it.


RR Conductor
NWP RR Inc.,serving NW CA
Premium
join:2002-04-02
Redwood Valley, CA
kudos:1

said by BF69:

said by battleop:

Give WISPs what they need. The need spectrum and decent power to overcome line of sight problems.

Then prevent AT&T, Verizon, Sprint, etc from obtaining this spectrum so they can't squat on it.

Give? more free government handouts?

Yeah, you know, to actually help the nation prosper, as opposed to free trillions to countries that don't even want us there, or money to the elite to make them even more elite.
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BF69
Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN

reply to battleop
I also might add that both Hughesnet and Wildblue now offer speeds in the 10-15 Mbps range and Verizon has HomeFusion which runs on 4G which offer speeds of 12 Mbps download 5 Mbps upload. So rural people do have these options. Yes they are expensive, yes they have cruddy caps. The article implies rural people have ZERO options. They do have options they are just lousy.



BF69
Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN

reply to RR Conductor

said by RR Conductor:

said by BF69:

said by battleop:

Give WISPs what they need. The need spectrum and decent power to overcome line of sight problems.

Then prevent AT&T, Verizon, Sprint, etc from obtaining this spectrum so they can't squat on it.

Give? more free government handouts?

Yeah, you know, to actually help the nation prosper, as opposed to free trillions to countries that don't even want us there, or money to the elite to make them even more elite.

But why just WISPs as battleop states? Isn't that the government picking winners and losers?


fuziwuzi
Not born yesterday
Premium
join:2005-07-01
Atlanta, GA

reply to BF69
My parents (in rural south-central Virginia) have only two options: satellite or incredibly slow DSL (1Mbps down/128kbps up). The DSL is wildly unreliable, with downtime of nearly 50%. Satellite is simply ludicrous with the price and caps. The DSL is a recent addition, only in the last year. Before it, the only option was dial-up and because of the type of phone system, that was limited to a maximum of 24kbps connection. Needless to say, not many people in that area even bother having internet service. There is no WISP, no Verizon, no cable (not even cable TV available).
--
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Linklist
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Longport, NJ
kudos:5

Study developed by NTCA with Hudson Institute

This is just the NTCA(National Telecommunications Cooperative Association), that represents a large group of rural telcos, looking to keep that USF funded money coming their way, but in larger amounts.

NTCA - The National Telecommunications Cooperative Association is the premier association representing more than 580 locally owned and controlled telecommunications cooperatives and commercial companies throughout rural and small-town America. NTCA provides its members with legislative, regulatory and industry representation; meetings; publications; educational programs; and an array of employee benefit programs. Visit us at www.ntca.org.

Their press release about the study and their big meeting to get more money:
»www.frs.org/images/documents/10-···dson.pdf
»www.frs.org/about-frs/press-center

In other words, the NTCA paid Hudson & Kuttner to craft this study in their favor.
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id09542

join:2002-04-25
Bloomington, IL

Who are these people?

What is the definition of rural ... a house with no neighbors for a mile, or a town of 3000 people?

Not saying it is great, but small towns around me, under 3000 people, are served by cable with high speeds and most also have DSL, albeit at a slower speed, but also lower in price.

Maybe rural Illinois is built out better, so my experience is unusual.


Simba7
I Void Warranties

join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT

reply to battleop

Re: Simple Solution

said by battleop:

Give WISPs what they need. The need spectrum and decent power to overcome line of sight problems.

Oh, I'd love to do this in my state. I just need the capital to start. I already know where to set up the backhauls and place the gear. Just need an initial investment and I'm off.

Too bad I can't find anyone to do the initial investment.
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covfam

join:2012-03-05
Black River Falls, WI

reply to BF69
Satelite internet is worse than lousy,i had wildblue on my farm and according to everyone i got a "great" signal yes i consistantly got 15,000 to 25,000 Ms latency, that means regardless of internet speed (i had 8meg service) all you could do was check your email and look at internet pages that had little or no pictures, and could never use ANY type of video like you tube, cnn, hell most advertizements pretty much killed basic internet reading. with that kind of latency it make internet viewing so slow dialup feels faster. plus with those HUGE latencies you never know if your "click" actually went through plus the 10-25 gig caps on most satelite services prevent you from downloading any games/video/music for offline use. we gave up and went dialup untill we got out 756k dsl service from centurytell wich was MASSIVLY better than our so called 8 meg satelite service.



Simba7
I Void Warranties

join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT

Oh, I've dealt with satellite. Back when HughesNet was "DirecWay", I couldn't even download a Linux ISO without getting FAP'd. Hell, standard Windows updates made short work of the bucket they give you everyday.

Only thing it was good for was, maybe, checking your email or running an IM.



buddahbless

join:2005-03-21
Premium
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reply to id09542

Re: Who are these people?

I would be surprised what they define as rural.. as your in Bloomington I'm north of you but south of chi. I do have dsl in my area but that's it. No cable and cell coverage even From verizon is scarce. Tmo I only get 2g service here at best or have to roam on att which I do often just for talk and txt. Needless to say only half of this town gets dsl the other half is S.O.L were not near 3000 residents but be have well over 1k and this is the options were currently given.


battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000

reply to BF69

Re: Simple Solution

If you open up spectrum that's for WISP only use, that has enough bandwidth, power, and the ability to penetrate trees and other things that hinder LOS you will see an explosion of small WISPs serving areas that can't be served.

The way things are today it's not possible for the small player to deploy LTE, 4G, or any other fancy trade name, networks to supply higher bandwidth to rural America. As long as the FCC panders to the multi billion dollar plus providers you will see them to continue to not give a shit about rural America.

Give the WISP (A.K.A.) small business the resources and they will bring you bandwidth.
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.


battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000

reply to BF69
Can you make up your mind if you want to complain or not complain about choices in your middle of no where town?
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.


mlcarson

join:2001-09-20
Los Alamos, NM

reply to battleop
Will WISP's charge a flat fee or will they be usage based? Most everything wireless seems to be usage based and is always more expensive than cable or DSL. WISP would be wonderful if it were priced the same as the options everybody else has. Even if it were priced similarly, it's still a dead end with respect to bandwidth. As urban dwellers are offered fiber with 100Mbs and 1Gbs speeds, rural people will be stuck with 10Mbs or less.

In my opinion, the only hope for rural people is the cable company. The carriers don't want anything to do with them but most cable companies seem to be making an effort to pick up these people.



battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000

reply to Simba7
You don't have to have a ton of money to start out. I know of a lot of WISPs that started out with nothing building it as they go and now they have thousands of customers.
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.



battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000

reply to mlcarson
"Will WISP's charge a flat fee or will they be usage based?"

It seems to vary from market to market. It seems to largely depend on the WISP's costs to get bandwidth and the capacity for them to deliver it. WISPs currently have limited resources on usable spectrum and their cost to get bandwidth to a rural area can be extremely expensive.

"As urban dwellers are offered fiber with 100Mbs and 1Gbs speeds, rural people will be stuck with 10Mbs or less."

That's a trade off to living in a rural area. There are pros and cons to everything. If enough usable spectrum is available you can see these speeds go up.

"the only hope for rural people is the cable company"

If it hasn't happened by now it's probably not going to happen. The cost of fiber and coax sharply increases as the number of houses you pass decreases. Your per house covered on Fixed wireless is much cheaper because the distance from the AP does not have a large effect on your delivery costs.
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.


silbaco

join:2009-08-03
USA

reply to battleop
Most WISPs that I know of started off back when 256kbps was sufficient and a T1 could be used to serve 20-30 customers. Now people expect 5 maybe even 10mbps for a WISP. The startup cost is prohibitive.


silbaco

join:2009-08-03
USA

reply to mlcarson
The cable companies want nothing to do with the very rural. Some are willing to service towns of 500+, but I don't know of any large cable companies actively expanding to markets smaller than that.


silbaco

join:2009-08-03
USA

reply to battleop
I have to agree. I think resources should be either given with specific requirements or loaned to small companies. Not necessarily just WISPs though. I think most rural telco cooperatives can and are willing to provide service with the best interests of the people they serve in mind, but they simply don't have the capital to do so.

As I have said before, my rural telco cooperative is deploying fiber to all their customers because they received a loan. They are deploying fiber in towns and on gravel roads with only 2-3 houses. It is not that they have been unwilling to serve their most rural customers, they simply have not had the resources.


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