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Comments on news posted 2009-04-16 09:02:00: In a bit of news that should surprise no-one if you've followed the warrantless wiretapping issue or previous NSA leaks, the New York Times reports that the NSA's domestic surveillance practices have gone "beyond the broad legal limits established by.. ..

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manfmmd
Premium
join:2003-01-14
Earth
clubs:

Pot...meet kettle

Change YOU can believe in!

Where are the calls to impeach Obama?

Where is congressional oversight?

Where is the balance of power?

Where are the checks and balances?

Oh, that's right, the new administration affiliation is "Democrat".


--
If the road to Hell is paved with good intentions, what is the road to Heaven paved with?

If the Democrats win in November and retain the Congress, are they going to bitch about "no checks and balances"? Not. Holding. My. Breath.


pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
Amen to that.


mr sean
Professional Infidel
Premium,ExMod 2001-07
join:2001-04-03
N. Absentia
clubs:

Does William Safire approve of "overcollected"?

Great.
Banks are under-capitalized and the intelligence agencies are "overcollected".

I did like this bit though:
And in one previously undisclosed episode, the N.S.A. tried to wiretap a member of Congress without a warrant, an intelligence official with direct knowledge of the matter said.

The agency believed that the congressman, whose identity could not be determined, was in contact — as part of a Congressional delegation to the Middle East in 2005 or 2006 — with an extremist who had possible terrorist ties and was already under surveillance, the official said. The agency then sought to eavesdrop on the congressman’s conversations, the official said.

The official said the plan was ultimately blocked because of concerns from some intelligence officials about using the N.S.A., without court oversight, to spy on a member of Congress.
Perhaps we would all be safer if our elected officials really were monitored by the NSA.
--
How you can make the world a Better Place


DrModem
Premium
join:2006-10-19
USA
reply to manfmmd
Re: Pot...meet kettle

Maybe we should all succeed.

travelguy

join:1999-09-03
Santa Fe, NM

1 edit
In other (unreported) news...

The Obama administration, in a complete reversal from their position prior to the election, has decided that the Bush/Cheney policies for warrantless surveillance weren't so bad after all and have decided to keep them in place...

puck0114

join:2005-12-24
Washington, DC
No surprise here...

This just proves that once you give the government this sort of power, they'll never give it up, regardless who's in the White House, controlling Congress, etc.


pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast

said by puck0114 See Profile :

This just proves that once you give the government this sort of power, they'll never give it up, regardless who's in the White House, controlling Congress, etc.
That's funny.

When Bush continued Clinton's extraordinary rendition policies, there was nothing but howls of outrage from the left of how evil Bush was.
--
Blagojevich / Madoff 2012!


mr sean
Professional Infidel
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join:2001-04-03
N. Absentia
clubs:
reply to DrModem
Re: Pot...meet kettle

Success is good.
Secession is a horse of a different color.

Mr Matt

join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
·Comcast
·Embarq

 NSA replays J. Edgar Hoover

In a recent news report it was disclosed that the Barack Administration fears an NSA backlash if the administration attempts to rein in the NSA. Remember J. Edgar Hoover. Whenever a politician opposed J. Edgar, he pulled out their secret file and threaten to disclose anything naughty that they did. As a result J. Edgar held the politician by the short hairs and we had the tail wagging the dog. The telecom carriers funnel allot of money to politicians to support them through pay offs by lobbyists. Don't look for relief soon.


knightmb
Everybody Lies

join:2003-12-01
Franklin, TN
·AT&T DSL Service

reply to manfmmd
Re: Pot...meet kettle

said by manfmmd See Profile :

Change YOU can believe in!

Where are the calls to impeach Obama?

Where is congressional oversight?

Where is the balance of power?

Where are the checks and balances?

Oh, that's right, the new administration affiliation is "Democrat".


LOL, reminds me of all the "phony drama" during the election. Glad that is over with, I tire of watching it in the media 24/7. I can handle some of it here where it's easy to scroll past it.
--
Fight NebuAD and the like:
Click Here to pollute their data


mr sean
Professional Infidel
Premium,ExMod 2001-07
join:2001-04-03
N. Absentia
clubs:

reply to travelguy
Re: In other (unreported) news...

Um...not quite true.
Obama's stance remains unchanged from his senate days.

If one were to pay attention to Obama's voting record in the senate, one would notice that he (and McCain) voted for the FISA Amendments Act of 2008 in July of last year (passed 69-28). This maintained Bush's warrantless wiretap policy AND gave the Telcos immunity for funneling info.
--
How you can make the world a Better Place

travelguy

join:1999-09-03
Santa Fe, NM

During the campaign, when retroactive immunity was about to be granted to telcos last year Obama said about the pending bill: "It restores FISA and existing criminal wiretap statutes as the exclusive means to conduct surveillance -- making it clear that the President cannot circumvent the law and disregard the civil liberties of the American people. It also firmly re-establishes basic judicial oversight over all domestic surveillance in the future. It does, however, grant retroactive immunity, and I will work in the Senate to remove this provision so that we can seek full accountability for past offenses".

That position seems to have changed.


LilBro

@foebud.org

Big Brother Needs a Check-up From the Neck-up

'Surveillance Self-Defense' Gives Practical Advice on Protecting Your Private Data

»www.eff.org/press/archives/2009/03/03

Reform The PATRIOT Act

»https://secure.eff.org/site/Advocacy?cmd···n&id=429

Government Claims Unfettered Right to Tag Your Car with Tracking Devices

»www.eff.org/press/archives/2009/03/03-0


NetAdmin
CCNA

join:2008-05-22

reply to manfmmd
Re: Pot...meet kettle

Very true.

Here's another one for you... What ever happened to fiscal discipline? That phrase dropped from the Democrats vocabulary once they took power.

It doesn't matter who you vote for, they suck.
--
"This is a bus. You know how big a bus is?"


TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
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Avalon, NJ
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reply to travelguy
Re: In other (unreported) news...

said by travelguy See Profile :

It does, however, grant retroactive immunity, and I will work in the Senate to remove this provision so that we can seek full accountability for past offenses".

That position seems to have changed.

And there is a reason for that. HE is now responsible for protecting the nation and is no longer a Senate blowhard angling for political points. The landscape looks a little different when it is you that has to maintain it instead of just pointing out problems.
--
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wifi4milez
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said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

said by travelguy See Profile :

It does, however, grant retroactive immunity, and I will work in the Senate to remove this provision so that we can seek full accountability for past offenses".

That position seems to have changed.

And there is a reason for that. HE is now responsible for protecting the nation and is no longer a Senate blowhard angling for political points. The landscape looks a little different when it is you that has to maintain it instead of just pointing out problems.
BINGO
--
When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat.
-Ronald Reagan-


axus

join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL

reply to manfmmd
Re: Pot...meet kettle

Obama's opponents were calling for impeachment before he even took any actions as president:
»www.breitbart.com/article.php?id···rticle=1

You might want to remember that Republicans restarted the "Impeach President X" trend with Bill Clinton.

I think some people should face criminal charges for the warrant-less spying on Americans. If Bush, Cheney, Obama, or anyone else OK'd it then they should be held accountable.

Pv8man

join:2008-07-24
Hammond, IN
One thing...

If you read this story on Drudge Report, the title says..

"NSA intercepts private e-mail messages, phone calls of Americans in recent months; Exceed limits set by congress..."

Recent Months???.... as if this was not going on before???


mr sean
Professional Infidel
Premium,ExMod 2001-07
join:2001-04-03
N. Absentia
clubs:

reply to travelguy
Re: In other (unreported) news...

Your quote, from the same time period, refers to the grant for immunity.

As for warrantless wiretaps, the key phrase from your quote is "It also firmly re-establishes basic judicial oversight over all domestic surveillance in the future." This is in reference to the already existing FISA courts taking the lead (again) over Bush's assertion that the executive branch can supersede FISA courts. Obama did not, and does not, assert that the executive branch "trumps" FISA courts.

But FISA is still essentially warrantless for casting a big net, oversight not coming until the search is narrowed.

From The Washington Post
Given the legitimate threats we face, providing effective intelligence collection tools with appropriate safeguards is too important to delay. So I support the compromise, but do so with a firm pledge that as president, I will carefully monitor the program," Obama said in a statement hours after the House approved the legislation 293-129.

--
How you can make the world a Better Place

Lord_Black

join:2006-07-08
Walnut, CA

reply to Mr Matt
Re: NSA replays J. Edgar Hoover

said by Mr Matt See Profile :

In a recent news report it was disclosed that the Barack Administration fears an NSA backlash if the administration attempts to rein in the NSA.
Ha. Funny. Is this some sort of sarcasm or parody I am not seeing? I hope you do not really believe that stuff you posted do you? Or is it that you cannot comprehend that the "messiah" Obama and his administration truly do support NSA wiretaps and have no intention of giving up those powers? Hell, Obama voted for the whole FISA bill last year after trying to game the public by stating he voted against certain parts of it. Politicians lie as it is second nature to them.

Government opts for secrecy in wiretap suit
Obama DOJ Worse Than Bush
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