baineschile
2600
Premium
join:2008-05-10
Sterling Heights, MI | Last Mile
Will cable ever lay last mile fiber? Or will other network upgrades around their current system let them compete with verizon for the next decade.... |
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jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Reston, VA
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Bandwidth Worries?
With the aggressive caps that Cox employs, why would they be concerned about bandwidth?
»www.cox.com/policy/limitations.asp
What, do they expect to cram tons of new customers on their existing network? Is that why they need to improve their infrastructure? |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
 ·North State Commun..
| reply to baineschile
Re: Last Mile
said by baineschile  :Will cable ever lay last mile fiber? Or will other network upgrades around their current system let them compete with verizon for the next decade.... They will when they need to. You can already get a direct fiber drop from most MSO business class divisions so they have the technology. They have ZERO reason right now to shoulder the expense of running FTTH though. Coax has a lot of life left in it for the majority of people and the 1GHz upgrade extends it even more.
Also, Verizon, FiOS specifically, is a very localized threat to most cable companies. Verizon doesn't serve a very large part of the country, so in the areas where FiOS is the competing product, Cable can roll out DOCSIS 3.0 surgically. |
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openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA | reply to jmn1207
Re: Bandwidth Worries?
It's not just about HSI.
will allow the cable provider to increase standard definition channels from 100 to 200+ and HD channels past 100+ |
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Da Man
join:2008-05-08
Hanover, PA | Where are the 1GHZ tuners to watch these new channels? |
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openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA | Maybe they'll be coming along with the upgrades. Can the current tuners continue to be utilized by the MSOs moving HSI QAM channels to the added frequency range and maintaining TV in the existing range? |
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coxengr
Premium,VIP
join:2002-03-09
Atlanta, GA | reply to Da Man
Here you go:
»tinyurl.com/Motorola-1GHz
»tinyurl.com/CiscoSA-1GHz |
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djrobx
join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
 ·PHONE POWER
·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T CallVantage
·Time Warner VOIP
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| Time Warner went and replaced our gear with 1ghz stuff last year. But they haven't bothered to deploy new set tops, nor DOCSIS 3. Maybe they'll do something useful with it by 2020. 
-- Rob
--
AT&T U-Hearse
Your funeral. Delivered.
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Dogfather
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA
·Cox HSI
·Verizon FIOS
·Cox VOIP
·ViaTalk
·RoadRunner Cable
·MegaPath
·Verizon west (ex G..
·Time Warner VOIP
1 edit | reply to jmn1207
I've been with Cox for over 10 years, regularly blow through my caps and only got one abuse letter back in the @Home days.
I haven't seen anyone recently (within the last few years) get an abuse letter or get cancelled for going over the caps. Cox during the earlier network management debate used examples of their users using over 900MB/mo so I don't think Cox is enforcing their advertised cap in any of their markets. |
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deadzoned
Premium
join:2005-04-13
Baton Rouge, LA | Traffic Management
Caps, Traffic Management, and 1ghz equipment upgrades... They are preparing for teh impending BANDWIDTH APOCALYPSE that all of the cable and telephone companies are so afraid of that seems more imaginary than real. |
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Eat Me
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
·PenTeleData
·Future Nine Corpor..
·VOIPo
·Vonage
1 edit | Told you so
Cable can.
For most home users, fiber to the home is really overkill at this point.
When there's a need for something like 1GBps speeds to the home, FTTH would be appropriate, but there's a lot that HFC can do that it isn't doing.
Not to say that it shouldn't be built out, but cable providers can leverage their existing cable plant for advanced services at minimal cost.
They are either just too lazy to do it, or bogged down by FCC rules and legacy customers who will howl and complain if they start dropping analog service. These are probably the same customers who resist getting a cable box or DTA because of the outrageous fees for rental that the cablecos charge.
Kudos, Cox. Let's hope the rest follow suit. With Verizon breathing FiOS down their necks they sure have an incentive to. |
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bofkentucky
@insightns.com | reply to baineschile
Re: Last Mile
Probably not, ftt curb/node/neighboorhood and some variant of wireless from there to the house will probably be the next evolutionary stage. |
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Eat Me
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
·PenTeleData
·Future Nine Corpor..
·VOIPo
·Vonage
1 edit | Wireless would actually be a step back, unless you're talking about wireless plant extension.
The attenuation and SNR through the air versus through the coax makes using the existing coax a no brainer.
Fiber to the home is seriously overkill for most home users. |
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Eat Me
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
·PenTeleData
·Future Nine Corpor..
·VOIPo
·Vonage
| reply to Da Man
Re: Bandwidth Worries?
said by Da Man :Where are the 1GHZ tuners to watch these new channels? I believe DOCSIS3 cable modems can do 1GHz.
Most STBs are 860MHz but they won't need more than that in the interim as the data services will be moved out of that space.
FiOS only uses 860MHz for its video portion.
Furthermore if video can be moved to MPEG4 they can cram in even more channels without reducing quality. It's almost inevitable anyway as programming providers are moving to MPEG4 and the DBS providers already have. |
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jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Reston, VA
·Verizon FIOS
| said by Eat Me :said by Da Man :Where are the 1GHZ tuners to watch these new channels? I believe DOCSIS3 cable modems can do 1GHz. Most STBs are 860MHz but they won't need more than that in the interim as the data services will be moved out of that space. FiOS only uses 860MHz for its video portion. Furthermore if video can be moved to MPEG4 they can cram in even more channels without reducing quality. It's almost inevitable anyway as programming providers are moving to MPEG4 and the DBS providers already have. Does Cable provide data and voice over the same spectrum? I know that FiOS does not, as the data is a completely different wavelength than their video service. Another advantage that FiOS has over cable, for now, is that they do not have a ton of analog channels to provide. Once the cable companies can switch to all digital channels, this will free up a huge chunk of bandwidth as well. |
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espaeth
Digital Plumber
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
·voip.ms
·Vitelity VOIP
·Callcentric
·VoiceStick
·ViaTalk
·Comcast
·Embarq
| reply to Eat Me
said by Eat Me :Most STBs are 860MHz but they won't need more than that in the interim as the data services will be moved out of that space. Furthermore if video can be moved to MPEG4 they can cram in even more channels without reducing quality. It's almost inevitable anyway as programming providers are moving to MPEG4 and the DBS providers already have. A move to MPEG4 would require brand new STBs as the current generation only has hardware MPEG2 decoders. At that time it would only make sense to deploy MPEG4 boxes that had 1GHz tuners. |
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Eat Me
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
·PenTeleData
·Future Nine Corpor..
·VOIPo
·Vonage
| said by espaeth :said by Eat Me :Most STBs are 860MHz but they won't need more than that in the interim as the data services will be moved out of that space. Furthermore if video can be moved to MPEG4 they can cram in even more channels without reducing quality. It's almost inevitable anyway as programming providers are moving to MPEG4 and the DBS providers already have. A move to MPEG4 would require brand new STBs as the current generation only has hardware MPEG2 decoders. At that time it would only make sense to deploy MPEG4 boxes that had 1GHz tuners. I don't see swapping out boxes for customers who want, say an additional HD tier to be a problem. After all, the cable companies always tout "free" equipment upgrades as a reason to go to cable vs satellite.
Some customer owned equipment (such as TiVo) also has MPEG-4 built in as well. |
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Eat Me
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
·PenTeleData
·Future Nine Corpor..
·VOIPo
·Vonage
1 edit | reply to jmn1207
said by jmn1207 :Does Cable provide data and voice over the same spectrum? I know that FiOS does not, as the data is a completely different wavelength than their video service. Another advantage that FiOS has over cable, for now, is that they do not have a ton of analog channels to provide. Once the cable companies can switch to all digital channels, this will free up a huge chunk of bandwidth as well. FiOS and cable are doing the same thing, except the FiOS is using wavelengths of light. Cable is using wavelength of RF. They are both electromagnetic waves.
But separate spectrums of whatever don't matter at all. All that matters is total bandwidth allocated, whether it is continuous or broken up across the spectrum.
Since Cox does plan on keeping some level of analog service, they will most likely put some digital video (digital cable) over 860MHz and towards 1GHz.
The article also mentioned MPEG-4 so it is likely that they will end up deploying new STBs with 1GHz and MPEG-4 capability. |
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iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
·Comcast
·Qwest.net
·magicjack.com
 ·BeeCreek Communica..
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| reply to Eat Me
Re: Told you so
860 MHz for TV (FiOS does this) + 140 MHz for internet. Someone help me on ow many DOCSIS channels that is. 38 Mbps per downstream channel, 30 Mbps per upstream channel. If you calculate it out, that still leaves Comcast with less internet capacity on a node than BPON (let alone GPON), and that's not counting space reserved for their cable voice system. It's also a shared system...with a hundred or two customers per node.
Then again, with MPEG4 and SDV they can squeeze out some more capacity, probably getting up to a competitive level with BPON.
At which point Verizon will probaby revise tiers as follows (wild guesses):
10/2 -> 15/2
20/5 -> 30/15 or maybe 10 Mbps on uploads
20/20 -> 30/30 or maybe 20 Mbps on uploads
50/20 -> 100/30 or maybe 20 Mbps on uploads
At which point Cox can't do a whole lot, particularly on the high end. If Verizon offers anything above 20 Mbps upstream Cox has to do upstream channel bonding to meet that.
Oh wait, no MSO has deployed more than 10 Mbps uploads, only one has deployed more than 5 Mbps, and only two (that I know of) have deployed more than 3 Mbps. Unfortunately, even with 1GHz, Cox will still likely have to use FTTPR (fiber to the press release) to fend off FiOS speeds. Unless they can make their TV picture quality really good, provide 25/4 service for a lower cost than Verizon offers 20/5, offer even higher speed tiers to those who want them, and generally stretch their system to compete with fiber.
Yes, coax can do a lot, but if fiber gets out the big guns coax is toast. If FiOS moves to MPEG4 video, they can probably pump down 1080p of every channel they have. Or maybe Blu-ray quality on their current 1080 HD channels. *shrugs* But I like competition, and hope the cablecos give it all they'ev got, even if they're sticking to a tech they'll have to massage to get enough performance out of it. |
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jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Reston, VA
·Verizon FIOS
| reply to Eat Me
Re: Bandwidth Worries?
Cable and FiOS are not the same. The full 860MHz spectrum from FiOS TV is ONLY used for their TV services and has nothing to do with the GPON or BPON ONT data bandwidth. FiOS uses the same 860MHz spectrum only so that they can utilize existing cable equipment at the homes.
Cable uses the 860MHz spectrum for everything. |
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